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Question Theory Fatal Frame II Project Zero II Kusabi Seijiro Makabe Ghosts

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10 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Kaido

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:59 PM

How is it possible that both Seijiro's spirit and the kusabi are both seen in the village?


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#2 OFFLINE   Hex

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:04 PM

The night of the Repentance repeats itself until the ceremony is performed, so Makabe's human "form" is just a memory.  The Kusabi is his true spirit.


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#3 OFFLINE   Kaido

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:17 PM

Pretty good answer. thanks hex.


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#4 OFFLINE   rukadesu

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:22 PM

It'd be like asking why the killing, blood-stained Sae and her former, kind self can both be in the village at the same time.

 

The Sae that chases you is the real, existing deal, whilst the kind Sae that usually appears mourning over Itsuki or standing next to Yae is just a memory. 



#5 OFFLINE   Kaido

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 08:28 PM

Must have missed that part (as important as it is) or just not paid any attention to that fact. Sorry for such a stupid question.


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#6 OFFLINE   rukadesu

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:13 PM

I wouldn't call it a stupid question. It's just one with an easy answer.

 

However, one may wonder what it is exactly that causes the memories of the past Sae to overlap with the present time when Mio and Mayu is in the village. 



#7 OFFLINE   ItsukiFace

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 06:06 PM

The night of the Repentance repeats itself until the ceremony is performed, so Makabe's human "form" is just a memory.  The Kusabi is his true spirit.

 

Can it also mean that the village replays the entire string of events leading up to the actual Repentence? From when Seijiro was lead to the Kurosawa House (Human Form) to his subsequent sacrifice as The Kusabi (F'ed Up Form)? Not entirely too sure, I'm just throwing this out there.


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#8 OFFLINE   rukadesu

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 08:45 PM

Can it also mean that the village replays the entire string of events leading up to the actual Repentence? From when Seijiro was lead to the Kurosawa House (Human Form) to his subsequent sacrifice as The Kusabi (F'ed Up Form)? Not entirely too sure, I'm just throwing this out there.

 

Could be.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think the memories appear in chronological order? Or do they? 



#9 OFFLINE   Hex

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:00 PM

They don't, no.  Makabe appears locked in the cell the minute you enter it in Ch.4, but he also appears upstairs talking to Ryozo towards the end of the chapter.  It could be the Repentance at work but I think it's more likely the spirits are just retracing their steps.  



#10 OFFLINE   rukadesu

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:17 PM

I guess.

Since the Repentance had the power to turn the dead into hostile spirits and warp the daily rhythm (I mean, the village is stuck in an endless night after all) it may as well have the power to turn the memories of the dead to real life events. 



#11 OFFLINE   Homuranagi

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:25 PM

I think they mostly are, but not entirely. You can see him exploring the Osaka house in chapter 5~6 which, if you go by the timeline in the guidebook material, occurred when he first arrived, before he headed to the Kurosawa house and met with the Kurosawas before he was imprisoned there. I think you see Seijiro hanging around in the cell before this? So I'm assuming that there might be a warp in the timeline - I can't say for sure, though. You also see Sae crying over Itsuki's suicide before that has occurred in the actual timeline.

 

Perhaps it's also worth noting that there's a "memory" of teenage Yae hanging around - not only her hidden ghost, and the added vanishing ghosts in the remake, but her vanishing ghost also appears in front of the storehouse in Chapter... 8? For some reason she is unnamed in the original translations of FF2, but I believe this was corrected in the remake. Her actual spirit is not present, because that stayed with her physical body and then ended up at Himuro Mansion, but the memory of her teenage self was left behind in the village because of the extreme imprint her emotions had on the place, even while she was still alive (if you assume these spirits of hers popped up before her main spirit was exorcised via Hinasaki).

 

The "memories" split from the main spirit itself and continue to relive the events of the Repentance, repeating the events that led up to their death, while the vengeful ("actual") version of their spirit roams around the village in its torment. The version that attacks you is the "real" manifestation; the vanishing ghosts they left behind are a sort of... imprint. Like footprints or something, I guess. Echoes of what came before, but not actually... "real". That's how they can coexist in the same place at the same time. The vanishing ghosts are just a little... snapshot in time from their mind. I suppose this is why they almost never react to or even notice you - you aren't part of the memory they are reliving.

 

I don't know if the above was even relevant at this point or actually applies to the topic, buuuut. The short answer is yes, the "echoes" of their spirits are on an eternal Repentance loop, but their actual spirits are not. There may be warps in the timeline here and there, but the pattern remains mostly consistent and constant. The pattern just resets every time the village's loop does.


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Question, Theory, Fatal Frame II, Project Zero II, Kusabi, Seijiro Makabe, Ghosts

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