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What exactly happened with Mio when she left Mayu and run through underground?

Fatal Frame II Mio Amakura Endings Opinion

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#1 OFFLINE   Metafalica

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 01:38 PM

In PS2 version we simply see how Sae approaches her and then we see how she sits near the river

In Wii version we see in her eyes how Sae's hands gets closer to her and then she sits near river too.

 

Was it all just a dream in this ending and she died in that dream or what?



#2 OFFLINE   Kenshin 4

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 08:45 PM

What i think is she got out before sae reaching her and because the village is not in the real world or our world ( It is in THEIR world ) she was back in the same place she was in before entering the Lost Village.

#3 OFFLINE   Metafalica

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 06:43 PM

Why you think that village exist in THEIRS world? I don't remember any records saying this. What I found weird is that she appears sitting on the stone just like the moment she wanted to ask Mayu something and noticed she is not there. Like she were sleeping all that time.



#4 OFFLINE   Kenshin 4

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 07:05 PM

The village Disappeared from the real world.

#5 OFFLINE   Yashuu

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 07:37 PM

This is an explanation given in DCB's guidebook:

 

A result that returns to the opening scene

As Mio remembers during the opening while sitting back-to-back with Mayu in a butterfly pose, she recalls Mayu falling from the cliff. The background is that in truth, Mio doesn't notice Mayu being led into the forest by a butterfly. The title of the opening chapter doesn't appear in the game, but it's called "Mayoiga", so the name of "Mayoiga" denotes the meaning of this ending returning to the opening.

Amongst the staff were people who interpreted the ending as Mayu having died when she fell from the cliff when she was young, and the Mayu in the opening is the Mayu of Mio's desires, an illusion, which I thought was interesting. Perhaps, because Mayu is so scared in the game, they thought, "Mayu is already a ghost," or, "She must already be dead."


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#6 OFFLINE   AnimalLover47999

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 10:08 AM

I just think they put it in there because they wanted to make a creepy game over scene.  Which while they did do, it doesn't add anything to the characters or story nor does it make any sense with them either.  It's the only "ending" in which I don't like Mio's character because it has her become an awful person and abandon someone else to save herself (disregarding the fact said person is someone she loves dearly).  She wouldn't have abandoned anyone to die to save herself, especially not someone she loves.  It just feels like they were trying to have variety and didn't know how to do it.  They didn't really think of the logical side of things with it nor did they really care to.  It's not an ending, it's just a game over cutscene.  It's the only ending not possible or fitting in with the canon of the game and that's the reason I don't like it.

 

I much prefer the scrapped game over endings mentioned in the DCB guidebook anyway.


Edited by AnimalLover47999, 02 February 2016 - 10:08 AM.


#7 OFFLINE   Chrysalis

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 11:49 PM

Metalfalica, I had always taken it as the game up to that point was a dream of Mio's, and Mayu had wandered off in to the village, never to be seen again. So... I think that is what the guide book was saying? I'm a little confused trying to reconcile the gameplay up to that point with that guidebook explanation, since it doesn't seem to state directly whether or not Mio was dreaming about the village.

 

I just think they put it in there because they wanted to make a creepy game over scene.  Which while they did do, it doesn't add anything to the characters or story nor does it make any sense with them either.  It's the only "ending" in which I don't like Mio's character because it has her become an awful person and abandon someone else to save herself (disregarding the fact said person is someone she loves dearly).  She wouldn't have abandoned anyone to die to save herself, especially not someone she loves.  It just feels like they were trying to have variety and didn't know how to do it.  They didn't really think of the logical side of things with it nor did they really care to.  It's not an ending, it's just a game over cutscene.  It's the only ending not possible or fitting in with the canon of the game and that's the reason I don't like it.

 

I much prefer the scrapped game over endings mentioned in the DCB guidebook anyway.

Given that it is a game over and not an actual ending... I don't think you are supposed to like it, or be at all satisfied by it. It's the "You left your sister. Good going, ya jerk" ending.

 

But having said that, I love that it is in the game, and I think it does lend a different look at Mio and Mayu's relationship. She loves her sister, but in that moment she has to ask herself "Is she worth dying for?" I also disagree that it makes Mio a terrible person. The whole objective at that point is to escape the village. No one has succeeded, Mio now has the means to flee to safety from what has been a death trap for all others. She has to consider the likelihood of her failure to rescue Mayu (who at that point has tried to kill her as Sae), and the odds of them both getting out of there alive should she go after her. I took it as a moment of weakness because it doesn't seem like the option I would expect her to pick, given what she has gone through for her sister, in spite of her sister. Mio even looks back before entering the tunnel, showing she's unsure of the choice that was made. And if I can see Mayu as someone worth loving and saving despite her dark tendencies (Hello, Frozen Butterfly Ending. That's what you get for being a good sister), I can't possibly condemn Mio for that moment of weakness. It just seems contradictory to me. 

 

But what it mostly comes down to is that it is one of those things that people always want to do in a video game (get the heck outta there!), but most won't let you actually do in any form. This game does  let you play out that scenario, even if it reminds you that it's not the brave thing to do. 


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#8 OFFLINE   AnimalLover47999

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 12:41 AM

The difference between Mio and Mayu is that Mayu is not emotionally stable and can dip into insanity on top of being possessed by an overwhelmingly negative source throughout the game.  She also both wants Mio to follow her but also to leave and escape alone because she wants Mio to be safe despite their promise, and she also at two points in the game tries bringing something up to Mio but decides against it which I think is her wanting to confess her falling on purpose and manipulative ways out of guilt but deciding against it because of what she could potentially lose which in my opinion absolves her enough of her most dark moments (Frozen Butterfly).

 

Mio however is shown to be very emotionally stable and to not have any hints of insanity in her at all.  She's shown throughout the entire game to be a caring, loving, and self sacrificing person who would never abandon someone else for their own safety.  If there's a chance of someone being able to be saved by you putting your life at risk then you should do it because it's the right thing to do and proves you to be a good person.  Mio leaving Mayu just to save her own life is a very selfish, heartless, and downright evil thing to do.  Most people are good and good people wouldn't abandon someone they know is still alive and can be saved if they act fast enough to their death just to save their own skin.  Mio's not a bad person and only a bad person would do what she did in Lingering Scent because only bad people care about themselves more than others.  It doesn't matter that Mayu puts her through a lot, a good person put that aside when said person's life is in danger.  She can't love her sister if she isn't willing to risk her life to protect her.  That's not love if she cares more about herself than her "loved ones" (Looks with glossed over eyes at the Miku Miu situation.)

 

If you truly love someone you will risk life and limb for them regardless of the situation.  Otherwise you didn't love them in the first place and were just keeping them around or at most liked them.  Love is selfless and unconditional and unless you're insane in which case you aren't capable of being held accountable because of messed up thinking then you will always be willing to risk your life for others, especially those who you love.

 

If there's any chance of saving someone else regardless of how slim I'd rather die trying to do so because it's the right thing to do and it's the thing that good people would choose to do.  Letting someone else die because I'm afraid of death would make me a coward and there's a good reason cowards who care about themselves more than others (Think Burke from Aliens) are always portrayed as being bad people for being willing to sacrifice others to save themselves.

 

Don't get me wrong it's a good game over cutscene but it doesn't mesh well with the others because the others all keep the characters in character instead of giving the player the choice to go against what they would actually do.  I like it for that, but that's not the Mio that I know and love in that scene nor is it something Mio would ever be capable of doing because she isn't an awful person.

 

Fearing death is natural but most people are good and would do the right thing regardless of their own safety if they were in a sensible enough condition to look and see (crowds panicking and running away isn't the sign of a bad person because they don't see the people who need their help from all that's going on).  There are those who don't think they'd do the right thing because of their own fear but when put in the actual situation and if they realized they were the only ones able to save someone else's life then they would do the right thing regardless of that fear.  That's what makes someone a good person.  I hope that doesn't come across as offensive but it's what I believe in because the best of Humanity is always worth fighting for.


Edited by AnimalLover47999, 21 February 2016 - 09:31 PM.


#9 OFFLINE   Meital

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 09:20 PM

Metalfalica, I had always taken it as the game up to that point was a dream of Mio's, and Mayu had wandered off in to the village, never to be seen again. So... I think that is what the guide book was saying? I'm a little confused trying to reconcile the gameplay up to that point with that guidebook explanation, since it doesn't seem to state directly whether or not Mio was dreaming about the village.

 

Given that it is a game over and not an actual ending... I don't think you are supposed to like it, or be at all satisfied by it. It's the "You left your sister. Good going, ya jerk" ending.

 

But having said that, I love that it is in the game, and I think it does lend a different look at Mio and Mayu's relationship. She loves her sister, but in that moment she has to ask herself "Is she worth dying for?" I also disagree that it makes Mio a terrible person. The whole objective at that point is to escape the village. No one has succeeded, Mio now has the means to flee to safety from what has been a death trap for all others. She has to consider the likelihood of her failure to rescue Mayu (who at that point has tried to kill her as Sae), and the odds of them both getting out of there alive should she go after her. I took it as a moment of weakness because it doesn't seem like the option I would expect her to pick, given what she has gone through for her sister, in spite of her sister. Mio even looks back before entering the tunnel, showing she's unsure of the choice that was made. And if I can see Mayu as someone worth loving and saving despite her dark tendencies (Hello, Frozen Butterfly Ending. That's what you get for being a good sister), I can't possibly condemn Mio for that moment of weakness. It just seems contradictory to me. 

 

But what it mostly comes down to is that it is one of those things that people always want to do in a video game (get the heck outta there!), but most won't let you actually do in any form. This game does  let you play out that scenario, even if it reminds you that it's not the brave thing to do. 

 

I have to say I agree with Chrysalis. That's how I think about it. :)

 

 

AnimalLover47999 I understand your opinion and point of view, but that is just -ideal- way to describe "loving and caring human". But sadly all people are not so brave all the time and sometimes when they're afraid they might be a little selfish even if their loved ones are in a danger. Mio is having quite rough time at that time and I think -everyone- would at least stop to think about escaping by yourself and leaving someone behind. 

 

I think it was nice to have that option, even if it is wrong thing to do. But it's an option anyway.


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#10 OFFLINE   AnimalLover47999

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 09:29 PM

Yes, but having the thought pop into your head and seriously considering doing it and acting out on that thought are two very different things.  We can't control what pops into our heads when under these kinds of situations because of any emotional trauma we may have been having at the time, what we can control though is whether we seriously want to do that or will do that.  If Mio had actually abandoned Mayu there (or anyone who she knew was still alive and there was a chance she could save them but especially Mayu for the sake of her being someone she loves) then that would just make her (at least at that moment in time because anyone can change and become a better person later) a bad person and it would mean she never truly loved Mayu anyway.  If you love someone you go through heck for them no matter what the circumstances regardless of what they may have put you through.  And the whole game shows Mio's much more interested in re-connecting her and Mayu's bond rather than lashing out at and making Mayu feel ashamed for her attempts at manipulating her which all are signs of it being actual love and not just a case of tolerating her.

 

I am glad that the choice is in the game, I just wish the "ending" itself made more sense in what happened. One thing I personally do not like is when multiple endings change the story or the personality of the characters in order to create more variety in their endings.  I do not want the backstory or the lore and the events of the narrative to suddenly be different from what it was before because I chose to do something that deviates from the canonical story path.  Fatal Frame II is one of the few games where that doesn't happen aside from this one part so it just feels inconsistent to me.



#11 OFFLINE   Chrysalis

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 10:51 PM

The difference between Mio and Mayu is that Mayu is not emotionally stable and can dip into insanity on top of being possessed by an overwhelmingly negative source throughout the game.  She also both wants Mio to follow her but also to leave and escape alone because she wants Mio to be safe despite their promise, and she also at two points in the game tries bringing something up to Mio but decides against it which I think is her wanting to confess her falling on purpose and manipulative ways out of guilt but deciding against it because of what she could potentially lose which in my opinion absolves her enough of her most dark moments (Frozen Butterfly)

That actually makes Mio's game over scenario seem more plausible to me, personally, as it then adds the question for Mio, “Is she even my sister anymore?” I also don't feel like it is consistent to give Mayu a free pass for emotional instability when Mio has potentially been under stress her whole life from her sister, let alone the stress of being hunted by a village of murderous ghosts. Why is it ok for Mayu to not have a grip on her emotions but Mio has to be in control of her own 100%? It feels like a double standard. 

Mio however is shown to be very emotionally stable and to not have any hints of insanity in her at all.  She's shown throughout the entire game to be a caring, loving, and self sacrificing person who would never abandon someone else for their own safety. 

I think those are some pretty heavy personality assumptions both in context of the game, and for a 15 year old character. Mio is still a child, and this entire game is pretty heavy material for an adult with many life experiences. 

If there's a chance of someone being able to be saved by you putting your life at risk then you should do it because it's the right thing to do and proves you to be a good person.----------------------------------------[snip for space purposes]-------------------------------

If you truly love someone you will risk life and limb for them regardless of the situation.  Otherwise you didn't love them in the first place and were just keeping them around or at most liked them.  Love is selfless and unconditional and unless you're insane in which case you aren't capable of being held accountable because of messed up thinking then you will always be willing to risk your life for others, especially those who you love.

I promise you I read everything you wrote, and trimmed it purely for brevity's sake. And I'm going to be frank, I think you are being completely unfair in your assessment. People are not perfect. If one selfish act under extreme, horrible circumstances is enough to make someone “evil” there are far, far fewer “good” people out there than you think. I don't think weakness is synonymous with evil, but I do believe weakness is what makes evil possible. But I also believe genuinely good people can make very bad mistakes. Mio also kills her sister in the canon ending, but that isn't viewed in nearly the same shade of negativity as her leaving her sister. I know there are people who believe she did so out of possession, but there are others that argue she did it in part out of internal resent to Mayu.

 

I agree that love is selfless and unconditional. But I don't agree that it is good or kind to outright dismiss people as evil or claim that they never loved someone at all if they make a bad decision under severe stress. People have breaking points. It doesn't make the break ok at all, but such an unforgiving outlook feels contradictory to your stance. I agree the best of humanity is worth fighting for, but condemning someone as evil so easily isn't fighting for it. Helping someone better themselves and improving their weakness is. 

 

People should be held accountable for their actions, and I think that game over shows that Mio is being held to hers. It also implies some immediate regret when she starts calling for Mayu by herself. Also, that ending set-up suggests that Mio acted on impulse, not clear thinking, as the further you go after Mayu you become locked in to that path and can't turn back after a point. 

I just wish the "ending" itself made more sense in what happened. One thing I personally do not like is when multiple endings change the story or the personality of the characters in order to create more variety in their endings.  I do not want the backstory or the lore and the events of the narrative to suddenly be different from what it was before because I chose to do something that deviates from the canonical story path.  Fatal Frame II is one of the few games where that doesn't happen aside from this one part so it just feels inconsistent to me.

I don't think it changes it at all, from what I've read in to the game it lines up fairly reasonably given the circumstances . I honestly think the problem is more that it doesn't mesh with the standards you are holding Mio to. Love doesn't make you incapable of mistakes.

 

This is derailing in to more of a philosophical debate, so I will probably just have to agree to disgree at this point since I've said my thoughts.

 

One last thing I will say though is that anyone gthat can think clearly at all times in a village of murderous ghosts next to a pit to Hell is probably not normal.


Edited by Chrysalis, 21 February 2016 - 10:54 PM.

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#12 OFFLINE   AnimalLover47999

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 08:40 PM

Nothing in the game has shown or implied Mio to be emotionally unstable like Mayu though.  The game goes out of its way to show that Mio is the stable one and Mayu is the unstable one even when she's a child and isn't under any amount of influence from Sae.  Someone being born mentally and emotionally unstable gives them more of a free pass on their selfish actions than it does for someone who acts out of cowardice and fear.  I agree that I might have come off as a bit too harsh in it but it just doesn't fit with how Mio is shown to be in the game which is a pure of heart optimist (Kurenai shows traces of this in its lyrics) who cares about others lives more than her own.  I honestly do not think she's not strong enough to resist the urge to flee when someone else' life is in danger especially when it's someone she loves dearly.

 

When I say evil, I mean more so that for that moment in time they aren't a good person.  Someone can do something horrible out of selfishness that makes them a bad person at that moment, but if they ever feel remorse and regret for what they have done no matter what it is and they make sure they'll never do it again then they are a good person once again.  I view good and evil as something that people can tred into and become throughout their entire lives.  You aren't just set good or set evil and unable to change your ways.  So, no I don't think that anyone is irredeemable, I just don't think Mio herself is the kind of person who isn't strong enough or isn't selfless enough to put her own safety at risk to save someone else.  The entire game paints their relationship as something that's beautiful and isn't impure and is worth salvaging which is why so many players have gotten behind it and were outraged when they saw what the ending was.  You're right I probably was being a bit unfair there so I will retract the statement of Mio not having really loved her sister, it probably was just her not thinking clearly from the stress of it all, but I still don't think that is possible from her character because of how she's shown in canon to be strong enough to not act on impulse.

 

I've always gotten the impression from Mio that she's a soul who has been hurt and judged by someone she loves, but instead of lashing out and calling her out on it and making the situation worse, she has decided to show Mayu the truth and right way through love, kindness, forgiveness, and that she genuinely won't ever leave her no matter what through her actions.  It just doesn't make any sense for me that someone like that would have it in them to give in to weakness when they know their sister is still alive and they have a chance of saving them.  Age doesn't really factor into the equation of being a good person, children have been shown to be willing to put their lives on the line to save others before so I don't think Mio's the type of person who would be able to do that regardless of any fear she has for her own life.  And in canon she doesn't have that in her and she does do the right thing (unfortunately it backfires tremendously but she wasn't in control of her actions).

 

Oh yes, I entirely agree!  It's NEVER good to just assume someone is unworthy of help because of what they may have done in the past.  You're right I was being inconsistent with what I was saying, I'm sorry for the confusion.

 

I agree with that but love is the most powerful thing in the world that has been given to us, it's just as possible if not more likely that even through all confusion and fear the love you have for someone else will be the most powerful and most important thing on your mind and will lead you to make the selfless right decision.  I don't see it as something that more people are likely to fail on than to overcome.

 

Oh, by inconsistent with the rest of the story I meant with regards to decision not making sense with what her choice was in canon, and also with how the guidebook makes it out to seem like Mayu was dead since their childhood which changes the background and past of the story and characters in order to fit the scene and how Mio seems to have woken up from a bad dream which implies that either Sae chose not to kill her and just let her leave after that, she got back to the river, passed out, and then woke up, or that none of the events of the village were real and Mayu was dead all along like in the guidebook and the whole game was just Mio indulging a delusion out of guilt because of teasing her before she fell.  Either way it changes the events of the story halfway through to create a new scenario which is what I don't like about it.


Edited by AnimalLover47999, 22 February 2016 - 08:48 PM.






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