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So let me see if I'm understanding the whole Miku situation correctly


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#1 OFFLINE   Abicion

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Posted 08 August 2015 - 09:19 PM

Hi there. I'm a bit of a veteran FF1-2 player and I've played some of FF3 (I'll get around to finishing it sooner or later). I missed out on FF4 because it was exclusive to a system that I don't own and countries I don't live in. I was curious about FF5 and I've been trying to piece the storyline from stuff I was reading on Zero Wiki.

 

Now... where do I even start on this Miku thing?

 

At the end of Fatal Frame 1, Miku's brother decided to stay behind to keep the Hell Gate stabilized and help the Miko there.

 

In Fatal Frame 3, Miku is grief-stricken from her brother essentially committing noble suicide. But the entire theme of FF3 is overcoming grief and helping the survivors live on for the brighter future, so Miku gets better by the end of the game and becomes friends with Rei.

 

Now in Fatal Frame 5, we have a new girl named Miu running around with psychic powers. Miu has essentially nothing to do with the plot because it's really a Yuuri/Hisoka game and she's just "Other Girl Who Works at the Antique Shop", but the writers shoehorn her into the events for one sole reason: She's the teenaged daughter of Miku.

 

And Miku got pregnant by a ghost. This happened because she had a complete emotional relapse with her grief and refused to move on from the dead.

 

And half-breed ghostly psychic kids weren't even a mechanic in the series until the writers came up with it for FF5.

 

And according to a guide after the game was released, Ghost Dad is Mafuyu. Miku's brother.

 

And because she did some incestuous freaky business with a ghost, Miku herself already died shortly after Miu was born, and now she's just hanging around Bruce Willis-style.

 

And all of this is delivered by FF5's writers as if it's meant to be a serious tragedy where our only option is to watch Miku become an irreversible wreck. Miu's parentage and Miku's final fate is built 100% solid into the plot, and this isn't simply a POSSIBLE outcome like one of FF2's bleaker endings.

 

To conceptualize this: Fatal Frame V has a character who carries a "B" plot who isn't necessary for the Yuuri/Hisoka main plot, who could easily be removed from the game (or just rewrite her with anyone else as her parents), and the only reason she exists is because the writers wanted to bring Miku back into the series (which in itself was unnecessary because her storyline already ended in FF3) for no reason other than to forcibly write her off with the worst, most absurd outcome possible.

 

Really? Is this really the Metroid: Other M-tier nonsense we're using to write off the original heroine of Fatal Frame now? Is there something I'm missing? Did I misread somewhere? Is FF5 supposed to be some kind of weird parody game?


Edited by Abicion, 08 August 2015 - 09:36 PM.

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#2 OFFLINE   midwinter

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Posted 08 August 2015 - 09:39 PM

Ahaha. Yep, you're pretty much on the mark. Welcome to the club, please take your "FF5 Miku ruined my life" badge and have a seat!

 

The sequence of events seems to have been: the creators were brainstorming a new game and wanted to have Miku's daughter appear as a character. They had no idea what sort of plot she would have, but they definitely wanted Miku involved somehow, because apparently they believed that would please the fans. They also didn't really care who the new daughter's father might be; Kei's name was mentioned, but they clearly weren't wedded (ha) to that idea. As the actual plot for FF5 began to take shape and they decided to use yuukon, Makoto Shibata (whom we all trusted dammit) decided that Mafuyu/Miku was inevitable, because naturally any dead guy would jump at the chance to get with his little sister, never mind that his only actions in the series so far have been to abandon her in favour of other people. Of course, this would twist the meaning of FF3's ending from "the people we loved will live on in our memory" to "you have no reason to live unless your dead relative knocks you up", but who cares about that? Miku's back! Aren't you happy, fans? Aren't you?!

 

Basically the entire thing was retroactively pasted on because they just had to cram Miku and her offspring into this game, and we're not allowed to have nice things, and the suffering can literally never end.

 

Hey, what do you know, I'm still angry about this. :icon_fallenwoman:


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#3 OFFLINE   Abicion

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Posted 08 August 2015 - 10:21 PM

So is Fatal Frame VI going to involve a completely tacked on sideplot where Rei shows up, completely relapses into her boyfriend trauma from FF3, and mutilates herself with a tattoo gun in a psychotic effort to gain his spirit's attention?

 

Or do the writers only hate Miku for some reason?


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#4 OFFLINE   midwinter

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Posted 08 August 2015 - 10:32 PM

Nah, I don't think they care about Rei enough to ever bring her back. Next game we get Mio's daughter, Mayu, who was born with a butterfly birthmark and a bad leg. She looks uncannily like her dead aunt, and her hobby is scuba diving in man-made lakes. It's Miku, twins, Miku, twins, Miku, twins as far as the eye can see.



#5 OFFLINE   detertake

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Posted 08 August 2015 - 10:37 PM

That's one strange way to please fans. In the end they were more preoccupied with placing Miku/Miu characters into the game rather than with pleasing fandom. In any case, there will be a bit more of discussion with US/EU release of the game. I don't think writers hate Miku or something. Maybe they were trying to make more life drama for her. After all, FF3 ended on too happy note for the series.



#6 OFFLINE   Abicion

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 01:58 PM

and her hobby is scuba diving


Well, at least that works as a decent setup for that Fatal Frame: Black Flag idea I had. I guess.


Edited by Abicion, 09 August 2015 - 01:58 PM.

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#7 OFFLINE   Rezz

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Posted 15 August 2015 - 03:47 PM

Nah, I don't think they care about Rei enough to ever bring her back. Next game we get Mio's daughter, Mayu, who was born with a butterfly birthmark and a bad leg. She looks uncannily like her dead aunt, and her hobby is scuba diving in man-made lakes. It's Miku, twins, Miku, twins, Miku, twins as far as the eye can see.

 

Hey now, FF4's twins weren't that important to the storyline... honestly neither really was the incestuous subplot that was at least vague enough you had to turn your head slightly to realize the implication behind it! Ayako barely had any relevance aside from liking to... drop in on you when you're in her room. And die really, really dramatically when you beat her.

 

Then again, we'll probably have to wait til FF8 before we get another completely unrelated game that takes place in an unrelated place with unrelated characters, so FF6 is probably going to be twins, at this rate.

 

But I think you've got it wrong: Mio has twins herself, which look uncannily like Sae and Yae, and have a propensity of dressing in all white and red and like tying red strings of fate to around each others' waists and... also have a hobby of scuba diving in man-made lakes. And then one day only one of them comes home mumbling something about a village under a lake and a pit in the bottom full of dead people and...



#8 OFFLINE   Abicion

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 08:06 PM

So how exactly has the main Japanese fanbase been reacting to this? Are they as pissed as us? Or did most people over there watch the Miu ending and they were like "That's cool, bro"?


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#9 OFFLINE   Eiko82

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 07:31 AM

It's sad what Tecmo did with Miku. I've been giving it some thought and IMO if they *had* to include Miku (and Miu), it would've worked better if Miku had been in the role of Hisoka. This would obviously require some tweaks to the story but bare with me :

 

After the events of FF3, Miku deals with her grief and settles down. She meets a nice guy, gets married and they have a kid (Miu) together. For a while, they live happily together 'til the father dies. Miku and Miu move close to Mt. Hikami and open a little antique store. In her spare time, Miku uses her sixth sense to find missing items or people. Having already lost one parent at a young age, Miu is very close/clingy to her mother. One day, Miku meets Yuuri in the same way Hisoka did. She and Miu take Yuuri in to take care of her. Maybe Miku could be a mentor to Yuuri to help her deal with her sixth sense.

 

The rest of the story would play out more or less like FF5 : Miku goes missing whilst searching for Haruka and both Yuuri and Miu want to find her. As I've stated in another thread, I wouldn't mind the inclusion of yuukon, though in this case, it could be Miku wanting to reunite with Miu's father (NOT Mafuyu) and being torn between choosing her daughter and her undead husband.


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#10 OFFLINE   Homuranagi

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 03:51 AM

I don't think writers hate Miku or something.

 

That's what makes it even weirder. Miku is Shibata's favourite character and he likes her a lot. Why would you do this to your favourite character and then canon kill her for good? It's a shame that there are no writing credits in the ending this time (aside from the dreaded Eiji Otsuka supervision) because I want to know if it's Shibata actually writing this whole mess with free rein or if someone is "helping out", so to speak, because it just seems so at odds with... absolutely everything.

 

So how exactly has the main Japanese fanbase been reacting to this? Are they as pissed as us? Or did most people over there watch the Miu ending and they were like "That's cool, bro"?

 

Mixed to negative, I'd say. I haven't really seen much (even less since release, because I don't keep up to date and I've had more than enough of 5 at this point) but this seems to be the main discussion outcome. From what I've read it's mostly a back and forth of, "This is so unnecessary and stupid and Miku never should've been in the game," and, "But it's what she really wanted! She can be happy at last!" I know that one (I believe) fairly big Miku fan in particular was really (really) unhappy about the whole thing (quote: "Maybe the only saving grace of [her dying] is that now I don't have to worry about her showing up again."). Most of the debating is usually around Miku and how she's handled, and Miu being an incest baby actually doesn't get as much attention as you might think. I guess people have just sort of accepted it, since incest is pretty much the norm at this point and the Haibaras are a tough act to follow, or are distracted by the complete ruination of her mother's character. I honestly think the possibility of Kei being her father drew more of a "WHAT?" reaction than the incest.

 

My own comment on this is... why Mafuyu? Why did she have to be in love with him? There was a four year gap between her being impregnated by Mafuyu and her entering into yuukon with him, and she didn't even know it existed at the time. Her father was originally Kei, but that got changed because of yuukon, because she's not going to go blubbering obsessively after her dead brother if she's in a happy marriage with a daughter... and that is where the problem lies. If she was originally married to Kei then that makes a really good case for her being supposed to get over Mafuyu and keeping 3's ending theme going. She wasn't originally in love with Mafuyu, certainly not to the degree she is in the game, or she wouldn't even have considered marrying anyone else, let alone Kei - not only that, but it sounds fairly likely that she wasn't originally even supposed to be involved with yuukon. At some point they consciously decided to take it back and have her be obsessed with Mafuyu again, and actually romantically as well this time. Her Mafuyitis is a retconned contradiction that wasn't even meant to happen in the original story, let alone the other games. This is why I don't buy the whole "they were in love the whole time, can't you see it?" argument - even the creators treated their "romance" as a tacked on retcon. It literally did not exist until they made yuukon into a big part of the story and couldn't think of anyone else Miku likes enough to die for. If they try to insist in the future that yes, she was indeed always in love with him and he reciprocated, I still won't believe them. This doesn't even begin to take into account whether Mafuyu was into it, and if so why he left sisterfriend for a random dead girl out of duty.

 

I'm kind of intrigued as to why Miku isn't playable or a main character at least in the first place. Quoting Miku's character notes:

 

At the beginning of development we had a producer's request to make her one of the playable characters, but if Miku was a lead character then there were too many things to tell, and I thought it would be difficult to create a story that carried on the past games ...

 

Is it me or does this just not really make sense? Surely the exact same caveat applies to 3? It doesn't seem like it would be all that hard to have Miku come back without having to explain what happened in the past, so long as it wasn't actually related to that past. That said, a lot of Miu's plot is dependent on you knowing about the older games, especially since her story basically revolves entirely around Miku and her weird parentage, and if you don't know this then you won't understand the main plot twist (or much else) at all. I read a cute anecdote about someone who was playing the series for the first time and thought that Miku was marrying Sakaki. Bringing up Mafuyu at all is arguably far more complicated than just having her show up as Kei's wife, which would need absolutely no explanation to a newcomer, or not even mentioning her past beyond saying that she has plenty of experience with haunted death traps herself. So why put Miu, who is hardly ever playable and spends about half the game AWOL, in a game where you're doing all you can to draw in new players if you need to know about the other games to understand her? Because she's completely tacked on so they can have Miku's daughter, and really shouldn't be there, another thing she shares with her mother. But I digress.


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#11 OFFLINE   Abicion

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 03:28 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the entire point of the Yuukon supposed to be living men are married to dead girls who've already been sacrificed to the mountain?

 

But Miku is a near-death/Bruce Willis girl who wants to be married to another dead dude whose spirit isn't even tied to the mountain in any way. So even after rewriting Miku's character / FF5's ritual backstory specifically to make her fit in the game's context, Miku's version of the Yuukon doesn't match up with what the Yuukon is actually supposed to do.


Edited by Abicion, 23 August 2015 - 03:34 AM.

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#12 OFFLINE   DecemberMan

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 11:18 AM

Sorry for necroing a really old thread, but I just finished FFV and I'm goddamn mad about the whole Miku subplot.

 

To conceptualize this: Fatal Frame V has a character who carries a "B" plot who isn't necessary for the Yuuri/Hisoka main plot, who could easily be removed from the game (or just rewrite her with anyone else as her parents), and the only reason she exists is because the writers wanted to bring Miku back into the series (which in itself was unnecessary because her storyline already ended in FF3) for no reason other than to forcibly write her off with the worst, most absurd outcome possible.

 

Pretty much what I thought about it. This is one of the worst plot twists / subplots I've seen in a video game. There is absolutely no reason for Miu / Miku to be there; what's more, the game would've greatly benefited if they were missing - the whole Ghost Marriage subplot might have made a little bit more sense for example. And no incestuous ghost marriage ;_;

 

So is Fatal Frame VI going to involve a completely tacked on sideplot where Rei shows up, completely relapses into her boyfriend trauma from FF3, and mutilates herself with a tattoo gun in a psychotic effort to gain his spirit's attention?

 

Or do the writers only hate Miku for some reason?

 

Jesus, don't give them ideas. Leave my favorite protagonist alone :C

 

I know that one (I believe) fairly big Miku fan in particular was really (really) unhappy about the whole thing (quote: "Maybe the only saving grace of [her dying] is that now I don't have to worry about her showing up again.").

 

Exactly my sentiment... Unless they decide to ghost resurrect her and make her an antagonist because of her undying love for her brother's horse. 

 

I'm sorry, but I'm really salty right now.



#13 OFFLINE   ナガクラ

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 04:01 PM

Aha, I've actually talked with a woman who works at the anime store we have here and she said she oppressed her memory of Miku's inclusion in FF5 until I reminded her. And her response was amazing.

"Oh yeah... I forgot she was in there. Why did they do this?? The whole point of FF3 is to move on now they threw up all over it and pretend it didn't happen."
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#14 OFFLINE   Rin

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 07:36 PM

Honestly I think it would've been better if they had shown a live Kei being lured by Ouse or something. If Miku really just absolutely had to be in it, I think it would make more sense that she's gone missing looking for someone who is still alive than someone (who's related to her) she's had closure with (and is her brother).
Then there'd be another little storyline that didn't involve a disrespectful incest/suicide plot. It'd be more like... "My mother can't handle losing another person she loves, but I can't handle losing the only two people I love."
Plus it would add in more variety as far as the endings go I would think. At the very least, four or six different ways it could go.

Edited by Rin, 07 October 2018 - 07:42 PM.





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