Jump to content


Toggle shoutbox The Disco Shack Open the Shoutbox in a popup

Strobe lighting and the scent of musty old books rises from within the fog...
midwinter : (22 January 2019 - 11:05 AM) yeah, there are a couple of different versions, i think
midwinter : (22 January 2019 - 11:06 AM) i tried removing the voiceover from the quiet version, and it's okayish, but it affects the music a bit too because the melody line is someone humming instead of an instrument
midwinter : (22 January 2019 - 11:13 AM) anyway, it's here if you want it!
GregZerO : (23 January 2019 - 10:54 PM) thanks a lot for everything mid :)
GregZerO : (23 January 2019 - 10:54 PM) I really enjoy the soundtrack and i wanted to have it
midwinter : (24 January 2019 - 05:15 PM) no problem! I like it a lot, too, it's very pretty :D
midwinter : (24 January 2019 - 05:16 PM) i never would have thought of trying to edit it if you hadn't brought it up
GregZerO : (27 January 2019 - 02:24 AM) glad i did :P
GregZerO : (27 January 2019 - 02:42 AM) Also for some reason BCL according to my antivirus pc or something is not a secure page  :thinking:
GregZerO : (27 January 2019 - 02:42 AM) and its weird cause 99% of the pages on he internet are "secure"
GregZerO : (04 March 2019 - 11:10 PM) https://www.youtube....h?v=jDadONMsXjw
GregZerO : (04 March 2019 - 11:10 PM) amano's new song doesn't sound bad
GregZerO : (04 March 2019 - 11:14 PM) and the video is like a fan singing koe or something lel
midwinter : (05 March 2019 - 02:24 PM) ooh, i like it
midwinter : (05 March 2019 - 02:25 PM) it sounds more like her old stuff
GregZerO : (05 March 2019 - 08:19 PM) indeed,I hope someone will upload the full version soon
GregZerO : (05 March 2019 - 08:20 PM) mid how are ur japanese going?
Tigermausbaer : (20 March 2019 - 10:22 AM) Hello everyone! :)
Rheo : (14 April 2019 - 10:10 AM) Hi!
Rui Kurosawa : (20 April 2019 - 01:50 AM) Hi!

Photo
- - - - -

Theory about the ending and why Rei has to survive

Fatal Frame III Rei Kurosawa Miku Hinasaki Kei Amakura Mio Amakura Theory

  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   midwinter

midwinter

    Tsukimori Shrine Admin

  • Gentleman Scholar
  • 1,206 posts
  • LocationKurosawa Antiques

Posted 22 February 2014 - 07:04 PM

Sorry if this is kind of disjointed! I've been thinking a lot lately about Rei's symbolic role as the priestess in FF3 and what that means. I thought it was interesting that both Miku and Kei start dreaming about the Manor quite early on, but it's not until Rei finds out about it from them that she begins sharing their dreams. If she's just picking up on people she knows are suffering from the curse already, why doesn't she also share Mio's dream, or Yoshino's?

 

The theory/headcanon I came up with is that once someone's crossed a kind of event horizon of trauma and grief - once they've lost all will to return to the real world and chosen to follow the dead into the Rift - Rei can't share their dreams any more. In Miku's last cutscene, when she decides to follow Mafuyu, she and Rei are forced apart, and Rei's voice can't reach her any more. I think the same is true of Mio and Yoshino, that the curse is so advanced with them that they're basically ghosts as far as Rei's concerned.

 

So far so good, I was quite pleased to have a little theory about that, but it doesn't really go anywhere. Then I was reading one of the columns Makoto Shibata wrote for the official FF3 website (I recommend you read it too, it's really interesting!), and there's a really quote in there about the ending that made something click for me:

 

 

Regarding the protagonist, Rei Kurosawa, though the pain of living on never goes away in the end, she realises that having lost Yuu is the reason she must go on living, and though she wants to be with him, Yuu's message is that the death of Rei would effectively kill the living and dead people inside her, and though it isn't said outright I wanted to give that to the player.

 

The fact that he said "the living and the dead" just made a !!! go off in my head. He might just have been talking metaphysically, but my immediate thought was that he was talking about Kei and Miku. By that point, though technically still alive, they have crossed the event horizon from which you're not supposed to come back. Rei, who remembers them and formed a bond with them through their dreams, is like their last connection with reality, and I think that if she'd chosen to go with Yuu, they would have been lost too. But since she chooses to live on, she literally keeps them alive, as well as figuratively keeping alive the memory of Yuu and all the other dead ones.

 

All this is assuming the second ending as canon; if this is right, it's probably not good news for Mio in the first ending, since her connection is through Kei, who's already gone. Feels a bit strange for me to be saying this, since I've always been in the "Mio survives in both endings" camp. :P

 

So... yeah. That's my theory. Does that make sense to anyone except me?


  • AnimalLover47999 likes this

#2 OFFLINE   AnimalLover47999

AnimalLover47999

    Destroyer of ad hominems.

  • Spirited Aways
  • 715 posts
  • LocationIn a nest made of the Kusabi's hair.

Posted 24 February 2014 - 08:00 PM

That's...actually a really good theory and makes lots of sense.  Really good job mid and it was an interesting read.

 

I've always felt that Kei living or dying wouldn't really effect whether Mio lived or not because she doesn't even notice him during her dreams and he's put to sleep in the second ending path.  But maybe just maybe him being put to sleep is the reason she's still alive?  Maybe the reason he's not inside the Chamber of Thorns in the last segment during that story path is because he's still chasing after Mio and is somehow keeping her from dying?  I dunno how that would work but maybe.  Or it could have still been like with Rei and Yuu Mio and Mayu had a resolution goodbye offscreen as did Miku and Mafuyu?

 

All these interesting theroies.  It's topics like these that make me happy to be a member of this forum.



#3 OFFLINE   FiliusMartis

FiliusMartis

    Kagome, Kagome Player

  • Administrators
  • 102 posts

Posted 27 February 2014 - 09:27 AM

This is really interesting, but there is one part of it that I'd call into question. You note that this "event horizion", as you call it, is the point of grief from which the living cannot return. This makes absolute sense for Miku, particularly if the player chooses to follow Mafuyu. You could even make an argument that Miku's turning around (when she is ultimately caught by Reika) was half-hearted and that she was still overwhelmed. I don't feel like you can say this for Kei. He was the one who held onto hope and tried to find a way to break the curse. The only reason he is disabled and/or killed in the final chapters of the game is because he does too good a job and gets too close to Reika. I suppose you could make an argument for his sleep babblings indicating that he did cross the horizon of grief if you tried really hard, but it just doesn't seem to fit. To me, Kei is not a character who is overcome by his own suffering; he's one who gets too close and is punished by the antagonist. If Reika spares him, it is only because of the earring, in which case I would assume he wakes once the curse is broken and her ghost is no longer holding him hostage, as it were.



#4 OFFLINE   midwinter

midwinter

    Tsukimori Shrine Admin

  • Gentleman Scholar
  • 1,206 posts
  • LocationKurosawa Antiques

Posted 27 February 2014 - 10:30 AM

That's true! I'd definitely agree that Kei is much less susceptible to despair than Rei and Miku. I was thinking that because there's still the curse as well as the individual's own grief, that if the afflicted person doesn't look like crossing the line by themselves, Reika shows up and gives them a push, which is kind of what happens to Miku if you don't choose to follow Mafuyu. So it is possible that Kei's fate was purely dependent on whether Reika was active or not, and once she was sent off he would have been able to wake up by himself.

 

I tend to think that once a person's reached the stage of the curse where they sleep continuously, that's the point of no return whether they reached it by their own choice or not. That seems to be the point when they're too deep in the Rift and their own connection to the real world is severed, and Rei can no longer see their dreams. It's really hard to say, though. I can see a good argument for both options.



#5 OFFLINE   FiliusMartis

FiliusMartis

    Kagome, Kagome Player

  • Administrators
  • 102 posts

Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:54 AM

Good observations once again, Mid. What's interesting is that in one variation of the storyline, Kei doesn't even succumb to the curse. He never actually crosses that threshold of being unable to return. He simply dies, instantly, at Reika's hand. This does impact how we regard Kei's situation, I think. My question is how much his curse was connected to Rei. He had no real emotional attachment to her, except that he wanted to protect her for Yuu's sake, but on a personal level, they were essentially strangers. Could her reading his letters through the course of the game have created enough of a connection between them? Possibly. Futhermore, in theory, Rei is the new priestess and would have a connection to all of the souls of the manor.

 

However, the priestess is supposed to bear their pain to the other side, and Rei fails to fulfill this. Yuu fulfills this for her, in a way, by taking all the tattoos and crossing the Rift with them. My question then becomes a multi-faceted one. If Rei had died, perhaps willingly, would she have taken Miku (and perhaps Kei) along with her necessarily? Would she have attained the power to take their tattoos and bear them across the Rift? Shibata's comment suggests the answer is no, but I think we need to contextualize the ritual to apply it.

 

Rei wanted to die because she wanted to follow Yuu, but she still had Miku and perhaps Kei on the other side. That means she still had attachments, which is the exact reason Reika's ritual failed. Furthermore, Rei's death would have in no way been the sort of sacrifice the priestess was supposed to make. The documents found throughout the game suggest that there is a sense of willing sacrifice, that despite her flaws, Reika did want to help other people with their pain. Rei lacks this entirely. Is that, perhaps, why her death would be disastrous? Because she too is an unfit priestess?



#6 OFFLINE   Cursed Lemon

Cursed Lemon

    Kid Playing Tag

  • Spirited Aways
  • 99 posts

Posted 04 March 2014 - 07:42 PM

As far as Reika goes, I think it'd be important to define whether the ultimate death of those suffering the curse is due to Reika actually killing them in their dreams, or just reaching the "terminal" stage in the illness that the curse inflicts (or both, depending on the person). This would make Reika's presence a kind of wildcard in the situation being discussed and could account for Kei's fate in the first ending. 



#7 OFFLINE   FiliusMartis

FiliusMartis

    Kagome, Kagome Player

  • Administrators
  • 102 posts

Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:04 AM

Reika's killing Kei is really the only way to account for the first ending, I should think. Something that hasn't really been brought up, however, is Miku's fate. Most people tend to go on and follow Mafuyu because you get a nicer scene in doing so, but there's nothing to say that such is the "canon" decision. It's entirely possible that Miku forsakes Mafuyu and runs back to Rei, in which case Reika pulls her under directly. However, in Miku's case, this results in her lapsing into the comatose final stage of the curse. The question then becomes why one should be killed and the other not.

 

I believe the answer, or at least part of the answer, to this question lies in the concept of a point of no return that Midwinter mentioned. Even if Miku chooses to go back to Rei, she is mentally in a place where recovery is no longer a likely option. In her conversation with Rei shortly before that, Miku accepts her tattoos, and presumably her impending death, as a rightful punishment for leaving her brother behind. She has, therefore, already crossed this "event horizon" into not being able to return to the land of the living, not entirely, and Reika's intervention isn't so much violent and forceful as it is providing Miku with just enough of a push that she goes over the edge. Miku then succumbs to the curse so that she can share Reika's pain.

 

But Kei isn't at this point. True, he calls out to Mafuyu and Yuu while he's dreaming, but throughout the course of the game, he's extremely proactive in solving the mystery and breaking the curse. Even with Mio perpetually out of his reach, Kei presses on. When he's caught by Reika, he's actually in the middle of attempting to reinact her ritual upon her, ultimately rejecting her curse and defying the fate she has dictated for them. He is not mentally over the line of giving up, and thus Reika cannot so easily push him into the final throes of the curse in which he will come to share her pain. Of course, in the second ending, he does lapse into a coma, but that does not necessarily mean he has crossed this line, just that Reika has found a way to lock him in until she has worn him down. Why does she not do this in the first potential version of events? Because he's not worth it. He's not Kaname (as the earring makes her believe), and he's not succumbing to his pain like he needs to for her curse to progress. Essentially, Kei becomes more trouble than he's worth.

 

In returning to Midwinter's original point, I would like to point out Rei's reaction to both instances of Miku and Kei's comatose states. Of course we expect her to feel more emotional over Miku, considering their relationship, and although one could account for her absolute failure to react to Kei's death on her couch at all to a sort of emotional deadening, this explanation falls flat for how emotional Rei is calling out just a few short sequences later. More important, however, is what we do and do not see when Rei wakes from having witnessed Miku and Kei's fates. With Kei, there is no reaction, no scene, nothing. But with Miku, we get the dramatic moment of Rei running from her bed and finding the Engravers standing over Miku. As she runs, we see the flash of the tattoo across her skin. At this point, Miku's curse is directly linked to Rei's curse. Miku's pain is linked to Rei's pain for a variety of reasons. Kei's never is.



#8 OFFLINE   Cursed Lemon

Cursed Lemon

    Kid Playing Tag

  • Spirited Aways
  • 99 posts

Posted 08 March 2014 - 05:19 AM

Given that the scene with Reika consuming Kei plays out exactly the same way regardless of the ending, I don't think there's a good reconciliation as to why Kei doesn't either 1) die, or 2) wake up in the second ending, other than someone willing to reach really far into what's going on. But that's what multiple endings in a game gets you.



#9 OFFLINE   FiliusMartis

FiliusMartis

    Kagome, Kagome Player

  • Administrators
  • 102 posts

Posted 08 March 2014 - 07:42 AM

I have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. What makes Fatal Frame III unique in from the others in the series in regards to its endings is that it requires the player to actually do something to get the second ending. Granted, only the ending where Kei dies can be acheived on the first playthrough, but subsequent playthroughs and adjustments in difficulty level do not suffice to unlock the other ending. On the contrary, the player has to go through a sidequest that reveals more of the story and provides the character with items otherwise not in the game. This sidequest is, of course, performed by Kei, meaning that his actions as a character decide whether he lives or dies, yet another reason I don't link his fate to Rei's. One item he takes is the earring that Akito left Kyouka, which is the same sort of earring that Kaname gave Reika and continued to carry himself. Considering Kei's general resemblance to Kaname (yes, Kei resembles Akito and Yuu resembles Kaname, but granted that Akito and Kaname are father and son, quite frankly, they all look rather similar) as well as the fact that he's carrying the same earring, I should think the notion that Reika mistakes him for Kaname or is otherwise confused by his appearance and possession of the earring and decides to keep him locked in with her rather than simply eliminate him.



#10 OFFLINE   Cursed Lemon

Cursed Lemon

    Kid Playing Tag

  • Spirited Aways
  • 99 posts

Posted 09 March 2014 - 04:52 AM

But that implies that Reika has the capability to prevent people from waking up entirely...in which case, why do the people she previously touches wake up? She could keep everyone in the dream until she killed them. 



#11 OFFLINE   FiliusMartis

FiliusMartis

    Kagome, Kagome Player

  • Administrators
  • 102 posts

Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:19 AM

That need only be applicable once the individual has crossed into the miasma laden territory or gone into the depth of the Chamber of Thorns. This is the same notion as what is implied when Reika catches Rei in the final battle and clutches her during the miasma sequence. You could even argue that the thickness of the miasma itself has something to do with it.

 

Furthermore, it's worth noting that the in-game mechanism for leaving the dream manor and the one Rei uses during her first dream is by running out through the door. Reika is able to corner Kei in a miasma laden area with a single locked door. While she is the primary antagonist and most powerful ghost, we do know for a fact that other dreamers are affectin the manor's make up, so it's not unreasonable to conclude that Reika cannot override how everyone else twists the manor in the dream world. Thus, the only place she might have absolute control would be her own area, the Chamber of Thorns, and there, she is capable of locking the door and keeping Kei from waking up.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Fatal Frame III, Rei Kurosawa, Miku Hinasaki, Kei Amakura, Mio Amakura, Theory

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users