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#11396 General spoilers (ask questions here)

Posted by Homuranagi on 02 October 2014 - 04:27 AM

This is going to contain massive, quick and dirty spoilers for everything I can currently remember, having beaten the game tonight, so turn back now if this is all too much for you. Also feel free to ask any questions I don't cover. I must have missed something.



Back when Yuuri was in high school, she was involved in a traffic accident with her family which only she survived. Because of her close brush with death, she gained the ability to see the dead. She consulted with a doctor about it, and was apparently completely cured, but it came back. It was all too much for her to bear, and she went up to the mountain to kill herself. She was rescued just before she could jump by Hisoka, who insisted that if Yuuri died then she would too, and then moved in with her. At the beginning of the game, we see Hisoka take Yuuri out for her first job using kagemi to find a book for Ren. They're attacked by a ghost, and Hisoka believes she should have kept Yuuri out of it. Hisoka warns her about taking on requests to search for missing people because she knows the dangers of it, but Yuuri is the kind of person who can't say no and does so anyway. Through all of her mitori, and having the same loneliness and pain as Ouse Kurosawa, she can choose to die with and in turn pacify her in one ending. I hear in others she can survive, but I only got her bad ending, so I can't comment.



A teenager (I'm guessing) who aspires to be an actress, but mostly takes gravure jobs. She's the daughter of Miku from FF1. Miku vanished when she was three years old, leaving Miu crying and watching her walk off into the sunset. Miu was taken in by Sachi Iyama, a friend of Miku's. She hardly remembered her mother, but wanted desperately to be with her, and eventually went to look for her at Mt. Hikami. She becomes trapped in a black box, but is rescued by Yuuri. While Yuuri sleeps she steals her Camera Obscura to go looking for her mother, and finds her in a box at the House of Joining. They make it out together, and spend most of the rest of the game asleep on a bed inside the shop. Miu can either save Miku during the dream, or she will vanish then and there. Either way, Miu survives both endings.



Perhaps the most interesting out of all three characters to longtime fans of the series, though you'd never guess it. Ren is an author who just cannot sell books. He has an assistant called Rui who basically moved herself in with him. For some reason he wishes to research burial photos for a book he's writing, and calls Hisoka for help, who's assisted him before. Inside the book is a photo of a mysterious, somehow sad, yet stunningly beautiful woman dressed in bridal attire. He heads to the mountain with Rui to do more research, but gradually finds himself being dragged in deeper than he thought. He finds the house of a folklorist named Keiji Watarai, who was researching the mountain and its rituals, a house that supposedly vanished without a trace. Inside he meets the ghost of an old friend - Sakaki, a restaurant owner who he's been friends with since their university days. He is led to the House of Joining, where he is beckoned by the old lady matchmaker to make a choice. This is where things get complicated - this guy has about four separate choices to make, perhaps more (see endings section for further details). When he was young he found Shiragiku's hair and touched it, accidentally using his kagemi powers, which is what caused him to repeatedly have a dream in which he appears to stab her at a festival, thinking it was his own past. It's not, by the way.


What's even more interesting than that, though - Ren is a descendant of Dr. Asou himself. He also looks similar to Dr. Asou, down to the glasses, so much so that the matchmaker confuses the two. More on him later.



Dresses boyishly. Does everything around the house because Ren is hopeless at it. Develops a heavy crush on him. She goes missing a lot, but he always finds her - even when she turns up dressed as a bride, or he finds her in a black box. Oddly enough, her fate never seems to be confirmed - she's last seen semi-comatose on the sofa, begging Ren not to leave, and she has no part in Ren's ending, nor the choice he makes. She writes often in her notes about how her body grows cold, her blood turning to water. No idea what happens to her, though!



A girl from nearby Mt. Kagiroi, a mountain that shared the same beliefs as Mt. Hikami. She was born with white hair and red eyes and a weak body, and everyone said she wouldn't live long, or make it to her seventh birthday. Everyone was afraid of her because she was so different, and she had no friends. One day, she met a boy while she was out playing. They became friends. Eventually she had a brush with death and nearly did die, but came back, putting this down to having the boy by her side. As those who have died once are said to be stronger pillars, she was to be sent to Mt. Hikami to be used in the black box ritual there. She knew that maidens at the other mountain were allowed to choose a partner to enter into yuukon with, and made her mind up that it had to be the boy. He was convinced to participate in a ceremony, customary on Mt. Kagiroi, where he cut off a piece of her hair to use as a yosuga to remember her by, making a promise that he would keep it and come back to her. However, after Shiragiku was sent to Mt. Hikami, he never came, and she was left alone in her box. But who was the boy, I hear you cry? None other than...


Kunihiko Asou

Had you guessed? That's right. Kunihiko Asou is the very boy you see in the trailer hiding with Shiragiku. He grew up on Mt. Kagiroi, the same place Ren spent his summers as a child, where he met Shiragiku and was chosen as her yuukon partner, taking her hair with him (not actually stabbing her, as he thought). The event was so traumatic to him that he forgot all about it, assuming it must have been a dream. Her hair was left in a branch family storeroom, forgotten for years. When he was an assistant, before he became a scientist in his own right, he developed a prototype Camera Obscura and was invited by the residents of Mt. Hikami to go there and take photos of the shrine maiden there, thinking that it would better express her beauty and soul than a painting. He accepted, and travelled there, taking photos of the scenery as he went. He was finally summoned to the House of Joining, where he took a photograph of Ouse dressed as a bride and fell in love with her. He took the photo, containing part of her soul, with him when he left the mountain. He leaves various notes scattered across the area. That's right: they hid him in plain sight. He's in the last trailer multiple times and we never knew.


Ouse Kurosawa

The final boss, fabled blue lilies. She was a shrine maiden on the mountain, and she was given the honour of becoming the Great Pillar to support the mountain and stop disaster from occurring - ie yomi (evil black water) overflowing from the spring and tainting everything - which was so important that all of the other maidens couldn't stop crying when they found out it wasn't them. In recognition of her duty, to soothe the black swamp, she was conferred the surname of Kurosawa (relation to other Kurosawas unconfirmed). In order to soothe the maidens put inside the black boxes and make them stronger pillars, they would perform yuukon to marry men to the maidens in the boxes, then put the man in the box along with them. Traditionally a man would select the bride's photo from a painting, and her soul was said to appear in bridal wear for that time only in the House of Joining, but residents of Mt. Hikami heard rumours of a contraption that could take photos and summoned Dr. Asou. When he arrived to take Ouse's photo. Like every other woman in this series she fell for him, and from the moment they saw each other an unspoken vow was made. Asou left the mountain with her photo, part of her soul still inside it. Ouse's residual feelings for Asou, along with the feelings of all of the shrine maidens massacred by Kyozo Kururugi, were too much to take: her ritual failed, the yomi waters spilling from inside her box, and she turned into an evil ghost, forever waiting for someone to die with, or use mitori on her so she can be at rest.


Hisoka Kurosawa

A lady who was taught kagemi abilities by old women on the mountain. She's old friends with Ren, routinely helping him to find missing books because he's too messy. An unspecified amount of time ago, she was requested to search for a girl named Akari who went missing on the mountain. She found her, but it was too late, Akari jumping to her death right in front of her eyes. Hisoka convinced herself that it was her fault, having given Akari the reason to jump, and the incident scarred her deeply, causing her to withdraw from taking requests to search for humans. Hisoka herself goes missing on the mountain, and is finally discovered inside a black box at Mikami Shrine by Yuuri. Hisoka insists that she must stay and become a pillar, meaning that Yuuri can be saved, but Yuuri refuses to leave her behind. Hisoka is possessed by the ghost of another bride, and Yuuri has to defeat her. She's alive, though, and makes it safely back to the shop, where she sleeps until the ending. Whether she saves Yuuri in time or not is up to you. Hisoka survives whatever happens.


Miku Hinasaki

At some point after FF3, she got pregnant and moved to live on her own, where she befriended a woman named Sachi Iyama. She had a baby called Miu, who is heavily hinted to be Miku's baby with Mafuyu, her dead brother. When Miu was 3, Miku sensed her natural lifespan drawing to an end (apparently because she had a baby with the dead) and headed for Mt. Hikami, planning to enter into yuukon with Mafuyu and die along with him. Miu finds her inside a black box, looking just the way she did due to having been used as a tokoshiebana - a shrine maiden who never ages while she protects the water and mountain - and takes her home. Eventually, Miu finds her crossing the water to the other side at Omagakyo, and tries to stop her leaving. It's all pretty fruitless, though, as Miku isn't cured and still has little time left to live, even if you get the ending where you save her completely. No happiness to be found here.


Fuyuhi and Haruka

Two teenage girls who go missing on the mountain. When they were in high school, they attempted group suicide with three other girls, but only they survived. They kept it a secret, promising to go together someday. They had been friends since they were very young children, and the song you hear them singing is their graduation song. Fuyuhi dies quickly, slitting her throat after being forced by a ghost's curse. Soon after you find Haruka inside a black box. Yuuri manages to rescue her and take her back to the shop, but she vanishes that night, Fuyuhi's ghost behind her, returning to the mountain. No formal explanation is given during gameplay, but you fight Haruka's ghost multiple times, and hear her ghostly singing around the room she stayed in late in the game, so we can all deduce what happened to her. Her ghost list entry says that she was put into a black box as she possessed the ability to perform mitori, like the shrine maidens before her, and used as a pillar, beckoning women with strong power to the mountain to join her.


Keiji Watarai and Kazuya Sakaki

Watarai was a folklorist, with an English father and Japanese mother, who grew up in England, but moved to Japan after becoming fascinated by Hikami's legends. Sakaki was a friend of Ren's who owned a restaurant. Both men saw the photo of Ouse and were cursed by it, falling in love with her and called to the House of Joining. When they saw her, however, they were terrified by her appearance and changed their minds, and were stuffed into black boxes by the old lady, roaming around coated in yomi water after death.



There are lots.



To get the bad ending, where Yuuri commits suicide with Ouse, use mitori on her while she's still underwater. If you want the good ending where Yuuri apparently lives, do this after defeating her once, when she appears on the surface.



By far the most variety. In the final choice, choose Shiragiku and enter battle with her. If you win, she will forgive Asou for breaking his promise and rest in peace. I hear you get a bad Shiragiku ending for some condition, but I don't know what it is.

If you choose the photo and reach out to touch Ouse when she appears, you get an actually rather nice scene where he turns into Dr. Asou. There's a flashback of Asou leaving the mountain and looking at her photo, sad that he'll probably never see her again. Back in the bridal room, she turns into her beautiful bride form and Asou admits he loves her. She tells him she could read it in his mind, but wanted him to say it - that her real wish was to live with him - before she vanishes. Asou does a lot of ugly crying, and Ren finds himself standing there alone. If you simply take a photo of Yomi Ouse standing there, she asks if you came to break up with her, and there's a flashback of Asou taking her picture. She says that it was painful having part of her soul taken from her, but she was glad. Then she requests Ren take one final picture of her to preserve her before she returns to the darkness. You have to look at her through the camera - in which she is shown in her human bride form - and take the photo. When Ren looks up, she's gone.

In any case, Ren's survival appears to be canon, whatever you pick (except perhaps Shiragiku Bad, I've no idea about that one).



Two endings, unknown conditions here. The first has Miku promising she's not going anywhere, and Miu says that's a lie - and Miku vanishes. Miu says she knew that she was no longer of this world, and that when she found her she was already almost gone. She stands there sobbing alone. In the second, she stays behind with Miu, though there's little time left because she's almost dead already. The two sleep on the bed, holding each other. Miu survives whatever happens.


How do you get the costumes? Other curiosities

I'm not sure if the order you do it in matters, but I got Yuuri's kimono for seeing her bad ending (1st play), Miu's kimono for her bad ending (2nd play, nothing on first) and Ren's only costume for seeing the ending where you choose to reach out for Ouse (2nd play, nothing on first). Note that if you unlock costume conditions and you exit the mission, you will still unlock them and retain any movies etc. you unlocked while playing. You don't have to finish the chapter.


There are rumours that the ending song changes depending on whether or not Yuuri wears the kimono - anyone want to confirm?


What was the ritual and why did it fail?


On the mountain is a big black pool that serves as the gateway to the underworld itself. The water inside it is tainted and evil, melting and corrupting anyone who touches it. In order to soothe the water and stop it erupting, therefore dirtying all of the beautiful pure water the mountain worships, the residents would put shrine maidens inside black boxes with some of the yomi and sink them beneath the surface. The maidens would stay purified at all times, their bodies and hair permanently wet, earning them their name (nuregarasu no miko). The maidens would perform mitori on those who came to the mountain to die, returning them to the water from whence they were born and allowing them to die properly. When they had done this enough they would be put into the boxes and used as pillars, preserved forever - the stronger pain they had experienced, the longer they would last, before their bodies were melted by the yomi and they vanished altogether.


Mitori alone wasn't enough, however: they also required a yuukon ceremony (marrying a living man) to stop them being lonely and help them continue their role for longer. A man would be brought from outside the mountain to choose a bride's picture from a multitude of paintings, and be put inside the black box with her. For that moment alone, the bride's spirit would appear inside the House of Joining for him to see. If he rejected her, however, he would be stuffed into a box of his own and cast off at Imidani.


When Ouse was to be put into her box, Asou turned up to take her photo. Both developed feelings for each other, causing an unspoken vow - that they would enter into yuukon together - to be put in place. He left the mountain, however, leaving Ouse alone forever. At some unspecified point, a guy called Kyozo Kururugi decides that all of the women on the mountain must die (I think because he fears mitori, but I honestly don't know) and kills everybody, crushing their eyes one by one with his knife. Because of the sheer weight of all of the killed maidens' emotions (I think?) and her longing for Asou, Ouse's ritual fails and her box opens, yomi flooding the mountain, causing a massive landslide and killing many people below. Everyone is tainted by its evilness, turning into vengeful ghosts who kill anyone who enters the mountain.

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#2081 Translations of unsubtitled ghost speech

Posted by Homuranagi on 20 February 2013 - 03:13 AM

There are lots and lots of ghosts that appear in FF4 that don't have subtitles for their speech and, therefore, can't be understood if you don't speak Japanese. I've been promising I'd do this for far longer than I care to think about, so here (at last) is a list of ghosts with un-subbed speech and what they're saying.

Note: Appearances by Kageri saying 'watashi' could mean either she herself or the actual 'Watashi' doll. There's no way for me to confirm either way, so I've gone with the latter for the sake of this list.


(Text in brackets is from sound played via the Wii Remote speaker.)





Nurse: Go back to your room...
Blooming woman: Give it back...
Mask boy: Come on...
Boy on stairs: Over here!
Female patient: Welcome back...
Man at entrance door: That woman is coming...
Library Sakuya: You'll Bloom, too...
Girl behind curtain: I don't want the surgery...
Walking doctor: We're doing this to cure them... to cure... them...
Walking doctor #2: It's to cure them...
Doctor: This research...
Doctor #2: I have to  hide it... before the director finds out...
Intercom: Bring me the charts I wanted. No, just leave them on the desk.
Walking nurse: The patients...
Nurse: It's that girl... again...
Window woman: Where shall we go today...?
Elevator woman: Where shall we go today...?
Garden door woman: Watashi will live forever...
Shrine door man: It is forbidden for you to enter this place.
Nurse: Ruka!
Girl in black: Have you forgotten?
Girl in elevator: That's right. This way.
Nurse after cutscene: There's nothing to worry about...
Sayaka on chair: Did you forget it again, Ruka?
Morgue Haibara: The festival... everything...
Walking nurse: Why was I chosen?
Walking nurse #2: Just that moment... forever...
Garden nurse: Just the moment of my death, repeating...
Garden nurse #2: Always... Always...
Garden nurse #3: What happened?
Garden nurse #4: Help me.
Stairs Haibara: Will she not wake up...?
Elevator ghost: What happened that day...?
Hidden door Haibara: Sakuya...
Door nurse: He sees something...
Sayaka: Please take care of Ruka for me.
Magaki: Everyone... will Bloom...
Girl in black: Let's go.
Girl in elevator: Let's go. Together.
Young Misaki: 4, 4, 6, 7
Door nurse: Didn't I tell you not to come here?
Young Misaki: The moon...
Girl in black: I won't let you become like me.
Railing woman: The moon... is falling...
Walking director: Come now, it's time for your treatment.
Stairs director: This way.
Entrance director: That's right. Good girl.
Hallway director: Just like always.
Entering director: It's treatment time. Begin preparations.
Laboratory director: You don't have to think about anything. Anything at all.
Tunnel voice: Stop!
Haibara w/ young Misaki: We might be able to learn something.
Girl in black: You came back.
Crouching man: Don't come near me! Aaaaah!
Man running from Sakuya: She came here!
Sakuya attack woman: Don't come near me! Don't come near me!
Stairs Haibara: You're going to be a Kanade in the Kiraigou.
Hallway Souya: Now, this mask...
Souya going to house: The festival is finally beginning. The masks must be readied.
Walking Haibara: Sakuya...
Gallery Haibara: I know you'll wake up...
Running Haibara: It's time we ended this.
Running Haibara #2: Everything... ends here.
Stairs Haibara: For me... and for you.
Hallway Souya: The Kiraigou... The Mask of the Lunar Eclipse...
Souya: The Mask of the Lunar Eclipse is complete.
Souya behind door: The ritual requires masks.
Entrance door seal voice: The festival is beginning. The masks must be readied.
Sayaka behind: Ruka, you're back?
Sayaka's room voice seal: The Kiraigou... The Mask of the Lunar Eclipse...
Futon room seal voice: We are the continuation of Souetsu's lineage.
Sitting Souya: If we have the Mask of the Lunar Eclipse, we should be able to save everyone.
Hallway Kanade: The festival... The festival is starting...
Walking Haibara: Come... this way...
Walking Souya: The Mask of the Lunar Eclipse should have been complete... Why...?
Wandering Sakuya: Blooming...
Wandering Sakuya #2: I want everyone to Bloom...
(I'll give it to you...)
Wandering Sakuya #3: Keep Blooming...
(I'm melting away...)
Wandering Sakuya #4: You'll Bloom, too...
Sitting Souya: You came...
Wandering Sakuya #5: All of my memories are... melting...
(Melting, becoming one...)
Wandering Sakuya #6: So many people... going inside me...
(Everyone is melting... becoming one...)
Wandering Sakuya #7: Everyone will become one... One...
(This... will end it.)
Lighthouse Sakuya: Don't forget about me... even if I forget about myself...
Ghost speech (a lot of which I am unsure about)

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#14764 Fatal Frame 4 on WiiU

Posted by Homuranagi on 02 November 2015 - 04:39 PM

For starters, NoJ are the ones dealing with the actual making of the games. NoA and E just pop up afterwards to decide whether they want them or not, and for whatever reason NoJ has decided to keep ploughing along and pumping the games out despite them being less than fantastic sellers. Given how terribly 2's remake and Spirit Camera sold overseas, I think it's pretty safe to say that the ones making the game don't care about hypothetical localisations when they decide to make something. If they were interested in sales from other regions they would have given up after SC (which has 16k first week/20k lifetime in Japan and I believe around 5k in Europe). Either the Japanese market is keeping the series afloat fine enough by itself, or they just really, really want this as a jewel in their crown for whatever reason.


The thing about remaking 2 is that they knew already that it was the most popular game. They had a guaranteed seller, and all they had to do was update the graphics, slap on a modified version of 4's controls and add a couple of new things. We're talking about a game that is constantly lauded as one of the scariest of all time, that constantly makes it into top 10 lists and virtually everyone loves. What happened to it? It didn't even sell 25k domestically in the first week, and ended up with a rather pathetic reported total of slightly over 32k at the end of the year. 2 on PS2 sold 64k domestically in its first week back in 2003. A remake of the most popular game in the series, in its entire lifetime, just barely sold half of the first week of the original. If you were NoA or NoE looking at those stats, would you want anything to do with it? I'm still honestly not sure why NoE keep localising the games. It's almost a miracle that they are. Localising 5 is probably a last ditch attempt by NoA to see if they can get this thing to sell.


The reported sales for 4 were around 73k in the first week, which was the peak of the series so far. We have no data after that, but even then it had sold about twice what 5 did in its first week. 5 has a lifetime of only 46k. Even if they did fix it up, dub it and release it virtually, between the lack of people who own a Wii U and quite hugely falling sales overall since 4, it would honestly probably be a pretty bad idea financially to release it at this point because it just barely has an audience, domestically or otherwise. If a brand new game can't bring in 50k, a release of such an old game is basically doomed. Doesn't really matter if it's more or less expensive than anything else since it's both being handled by different branches and almost guaranteed not to be worth it financially. I'm also pretty sure the size of 4 comes close to the storage limit of the basic Wii U, so you would have the exact same complaints about it being too big, even if it's quite a bit smaller than 5, and we'd just be back to the eternal cycle of demanding a physical release.


As long as NoJ want it, the series won't die. The job people have is to convince NoA that the games are worth it, and you won't do that by managing to find something to complain about in every single thing they do like some people have been, you'll do it by people actually buying the game. Limited editions are just incentives and sure, they're nice, but they're also not cheap to produce and detract nothing from the overall experience if you don't have them. If you wait months and months to get ice cream and then see someone else with sprinkles on theirs, you aren't going to throw yours to the ground and storm off because theirs is slightly nicer looking than yours; you're going to finish every last bit of that ice cream and then go back to eagerly waiting for more. Japan didn't get a special edition, either - it's not like NA is being singled out and bullied or something. It isn't hard to see why they're are so wary of the costs of a physical release. People cared enough about getting 4 to do an actual fan translation, but some people refuse to even touch 5 just because there are no bikinis. Things have changed. NoE seem to like flashing the cash and don't really give a damn about profits if they're still bringing these games over, which is probably why they supposedly were originally going to localise 4 but then cancelled. That whole thing is still kind of a rumour-shrouded mystery, but if NoE weren't willing to touch it then obviously it was dead in the water. Barring a remake, it's probably time to let it go.

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#14728 Fatal Frame 4 on WiiU

Posted by Homuranagi on 01 November 2015 - 05:09 PM

The short answer? No. Look at how they seemed to dawdle over releasing 5. If they weren't willing to release 4 when it was brand new and everyone and their goldfish owned a Wii and yet horror games were still selling abysmally, they certainly won't be now. Even a localisation probably isn't worth the money to the point where, as we know, 5 didn't even get a physical release in NA, and paying to fix the bugs on top of that for a dead system for an already niche, low-selling game is just not worth it for them. If it didn't have the bugs then I guess it might have had an outside chance of a digital release, but with the bugs I just don't see it happening without a remake. There's just nothing in it for them. I highly doubt 5 sold all that well either, guessing by the JP sales and people refusing to buy it for silly reasons/it being digital only, and it's a risky investment to make for what's probably a very small profit in the best case scenario for a game that's 7 years old already. If they decide that 5 sold well enough then they might localise a remake in the future, but I don't see them touching the original.


Also, re not needing a dub, it does. The same way people complain about a game being dubbed, people will also complain about a game not being dubbed. This is also a special case where there are a fair few unsubbed spoken lines, so you would miss several things without a dub. They pretty much would need to do one, and that would be yet another expense they would probably never make back. Not to mention that after the backlash to 5 I can't see a point in releasing it digitally only anyway. People said that they wanted 5 whatever it took, and then when it was announced they constantly found reasons to boycott it. The same would likely happen here. I can feel it coming.

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#10076 Famitsu 28/8

Posted by Homuranagi on 27 August 2014 - 03:55 PM

New Ruffles image sneaked away inside Famitsu:



We have three main characters:

Yuuri Kozukata (不来方夕利). We already know all of this, except she goes to the mountain to search for the owner of the shop, Hisoka Kurosawa. Voiced by Risa Tawata.

Miu Hinasaki (雛咲深羽), a girl searching for her missing mother, who vanished when she was a child. Yes, she's Ruffles. She's never known the love of parents and feels empty. Heads to the mountain believing her mother is there. Voiced by Maaya Uchida.

Ren Hojo (放生蓮), aka The Dude. He's a failure of an author who's known Yuuri for ages. He's quite whimsical and is scolded by his assistant for it. He hears of a custom involving burial photos, and goes to the mountain to research for his new book. Voiced by Tatsuhisa Suzuki.

Other characters:

Hisoka Kurosawa (黒澤密花), owner of the shop, who uses kagemi skills to search for lost things. Goes to the mountain to look for a missing girl and vanishes. Voiced by Atsuko Tanaka.

Rui Kagamiya (鏡宮累), Ren's assistant. She respects him, calling him sensei, and as well as helping him out she thinks of him as family. Voiced by Maaya Sakamoto.


There are three main locations the player can explore at the start, like the forest and buildings around the mountain.
These are:

Mikomori Onsen: An abandoned old, big house known as a famous ghost spot where lots of ghosts are.

Kurosawa Antiques: Also a cafe! Yuuri lives and works here. People come here to request lost things be found, or have their fortunes told by Hisoka.

Shirazu no Mori (Unknown Forest): A forest in the mountain. Ever since it became famous as a suicide spot, there's been a big fence around it, which people sneak in through. There are also rumours of a murderer hiding inside...

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#7760 FF3 Misc Textures

Posted by Magamdy on 14 January 2014 - 01:16 PM

Hey people.


I still had some texture rips in my Pc that I ripped like, a year ago I think? 

Anyway I thought I may as wel share them here with you all :D


Now here's a link to all of note I had on my PC, but I'll explain the individuals here for you.


Hidden Ghosts



A link to a bunch of hidden ghosts, not sure if these are all of them.


Closet Ghosts



This is the texture that appears on the wall of the closet under the stairs (The name "Nope Closet" just came to mind). 


On Screen Ghosts



These appear if you let the game linger too long. Reika and the Mom (Name escaped me).


Wall Ghosts




These ghosts appear on the walls at some point. Not sure when though.


Rei's Wall Spots



The wall spots that appears in Rei's house. You can nicely see the progression here. There's also a lot of texture cut away in the actual game, as you can see.


Misc Stuff


The Project Zero 3 Logo.



The skin in the tattoo room. It's pretty detailed actually.



The texture that shows on the startscreen.


That's all of note. Some more interesting images jump to mind I can rip. If you want to see anything in particular feel free to request.

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#14557 Maiden of Black Water: Tall Woman

Posted by LadyHepatica on 21 October 2015 - 10:50 PM



A project that I got done in time for the US release for the game. I was inspired after watching GirlGamerGaB’s play-through of FFV to draw one of the scenes with tall lady.

Feel free to watch her highlights, the scene is included: 


She is such a creepy ghost and no doubt a lot of people’s favorite ghost.

All of it was hand painted texture. My graphics card updated halfway through working on it and so now my Photoshop is in lag hell. I had to paint almost all of the textures with brush lag ORZ.

I don’t have a WiiU to play the game though, since it’s digital only. I’m kinda super sad. Fatal Frame is the only WiiU game I want.

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#13834 So let me see if I'm understanding the whole Miku situation correctly

Posted by midwinter on 08 August 2015 - 09:39 PM

Ahaha. Yep, you're pretty much on the mark. Welcome to the club, please take your "FF5 Miku ruined my life" badge and have a seat!


The sequence of events seems to have been: the creators were brainstorming a new game and wanted to have Miku's daughter appear as a character. They had no idea what sort of plot she would have, but they definitely wanted Miku involved somehow, because apparently they believed that would please the fans. They also didn't really care who the new daughter's father might be; Kei's name was mentioned, but they clearly weren't wedded (ha) to that idea. As the actual plot for FF5 began to take shape and they decided to use yuukon, Makoto Shibata (whom we all trusted dammit) decided that Mafuyu/Miku was inevitable, because naturally any dead guy would jump at the chance to get with his little sister, never mind that his only actions in the series so far have been to abandon her in favour of other people. Of course, this would twist the meaning of FF3's ending from "the people we loved will live on in our memory" to "you have no reason to live unless your dead relative knocks you up", but who cares about that? Miku's back! Aren't you happy, fans? Aren't you?!


Basically the entire thing was retroactively pasted on because they just had to cram Miku and her offspring into this game, and we're not allowed to have nice things, and the suffering can literally never end.


Hey, what do you know, I'm still angry about this. :icon_fallenwoman:

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#10544 Famitsu 17/9

Posted by Homuranagi on 17 September 2014 - 03:14 PM

This is all going to be super rushed! So I'll keep updating constantly! But what we do know:


Miu is Miku's daughter and Miku is in the game! She went missing when Miu was 3. Still voiced by Rika Wakusawa. There are rumours that she is currently at the mountain, but why?


Onion's name is Shiragiku (白菊), voiced by Natsumi Takamori. She is notable for her white hair, and seems to be able to read people's minds. She shows up at the shrine, whispering mysterious words to visitors. She has a faceless doll called a hitogatami (人形見), but what does it mean...?


Haruka Momose who we met on the website. She's Fuyuhi's friend and is easily swayed by others' opinions. She seems to have a secret between her and Fuyuhi, which may have something to do with her spiriting away.


Watch this space!








Mt. Hikami Cable Car, a cable car built to stir up tourism at the mountain again. There was a big landslide soon after completion and it was abandoned. Rumoured to be a famous ghost spot where ghosts are spotted in the car, etc.


Watarai Mansion, a house where a folklorist called Keiji Watarai lived when he investigated the mountain. He went missing while investigating the religion and the house suddenly vanished from the mountain. It's rumoured to have been spotted amidst the fog.


Katashiro Shrine, a shrine in the centre of Shirazu Forest with a lot of dolls. It's been empty for ages, and no one knows why the dolls are there. Kids' ghosts play there, the dolls talk, and a girl with white hair and a doll stares at you, so the rumours go.


Tunnel/caves, which stretch beneath the island. The mountain was seen as the human body and the cave thing seen as the inside, where water (and gods) dwell, so it was called the... womb cave? Sounds familiar...


Hikami Tunnel, a tunnel that was built with the intention of ferrying tourists to the top of the mountain. Water from the caves flooded the tunnels during construction and many workers died. construction began again later, but the entire mountain was abandoned, so it was closed down.


Bathroom, where Yuuri meets a ghost!!!!



In terms of gameplay:


Wetness - comes from rain, taking attacks, being in water obviously etc., which fills the wetness meter. Wetter you are the stronger your spirit power is, other powerups to the camera. OTOH, your defence lowers and you encounter more ghosts, so it's risky. Wetness clears up over time, but if you want to fix it right away you can use the "purifying flame" lantern.

If you take an attack from a ghost in "yomi nure" status, you too will enter it, which lowers your defence and gradually your HP too, as well as messing up your vision. This too can be cured with the purifying flame, or you can defeat all ghosts, leave the area, etc. Up to you.


Also, if you touch a ghost as they're "dying", you can view a past scene of how they died. You can also touch them during special attacks. If you're successful, you can beat the ghost regardless of their HP. Most ghosts are unique with their own past, and you can form a sort of "collection" of these death videos.

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#4666 PZ2: DCB - Mio and Mayu cosplay~!

Posted by Meital on 29 May 2013 - 08:49 PM

So me and my sister, Chuiga, did make our Project Zero 2: DBC cosplays (me as Mayu and Chuiga as Mio).


I am going to upload more cosplay photos after Desucon 2013 (15.- 16.6), if you're interested~ :>

Anyways we did this short cosplay testing video just for fun and I though you guys would like to see it:



And editto: Here is part #2 ! ´:D



But please notice that these costumes are not ready yet ´:>





And maybe we will someday upload more serious stuff :P

So yea, more photos coming soon~

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#14906 Why did he do it?

Posted by Homuranagi on 06 November 2015 - 03:17 PM

The thing about falling in love with one of them is an urban legend based around the event. Not sure why they'd be dropping red herrings about something they never intended to fully explain, especially right at the start, but there it is. If you use the Voice lens on him (go do this and see what everyone says, it's quite enlightening) you hear what makes up 99% of the actual plot revolving around him. I don't know what the official English version is, but he's a quick version of the JP text:


Don't look at me. Don't look at me. I killed that man with my own hands. I did it to protect Sister. He defiled her. But Sister went to the mountain. It's because they called her there. Yes - I'll kill them. I must kill them all. I must kill them.


So something happens between a man and Shino that Kyozo doesn't like, so he kills him, and she goes to the mountain to kill herself. He believes that it's the shrine maidens' fault for calling her there and massacres them, as part of a campaign to destroy the mountain and leave no trace of it behind. His sister's quotes are about her apologising and telling someone to wait, and that she'll be seeing them again soon, and can't wait. Going by Kyozo's quotes she's talking about the man he killed. From this you can guess a vague outline of what went on - Shino had a man friend that Kyozo viewed as having "defiled" his sister, knowing this game because he wanted her to himself because incest trumps all, so he killed him; Shino apparently didn't feel the same way and was upset and wanted to be with the guy again and went to kill herself so Kyozo, who I guess was ignoring his sister's wishes because he had some kind of feelings for her that weren't reciprocated, lost it and went a-massacring, blaming her death on the shrine maidens instead of his own actions, because he was just "protecting" her and didn't really do anything wrong.


His "secret" is most likely about having feelings for his sister, because I've lost the ability of think of anyone in this series as just a protective sibling, though I suppose you could guess that it might be because of the murder as well. To me, at least, it seems likely that he wouldn't be so paranoid about them finding out about the man, because as far as he's concerned it was for a good cause, and all of the hysteria about being looked at would be understandable if you met a bunch of magical women who could see your darkest secrets and figure out that you're in love with your sister. To put it shortly, it sounds like something You Haibara would say and do, and we know his track record with sisters. That's all the information we have, so unless Shibata says more about it we're only ever going to be able to guess.

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#14866 Siliconera Exclusive Interview Nov 3, 2015

Posted by Homuranagi on 04 November 2015 - 05:33 PM

↓ Essay/opinions/casual ramblings follow (spoiler free) ↓



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#14461 Fatal Frame 5 costumes Trailer !

Posted by Kenshin 4 on 16 October 2015 - 03:23 PM


2 new costumes that are not available in the JPN version !!!

- Zelda costume from The legend of Zelda series.
- Zero suit samus costume from Metriod series.

Can't wait to play the game !
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#13623 Concept images from "The Art of Grasshopper Manufacture"

Posted by midwinter on 03 July 2015 - 09:02 AM

As some of you might have seen in the shoutbox, Grasshopper Manufacture recently published a big multi-game artbook, which included a few pages of FF4! It says 8 pages, but two of those are the introductory spread and one is just the renders of the four playable characters that we've seen before, so it works out at about five pages of new material. Still, there's some interesting stuff in there, including one character and one ghost who either weren't included or were changed so much as to be unrecognisable in the final version. Download the scans here:




Suda51's commentary is also conveniently translated into English at the back, so here it is:



The "Zero" series was a popular Japanese horror adventure game by Tecmo (a publisher at the time). GhM was in charge of development for the fourth of those. The main character has lost her memory and explores an abandoned hospital and Japanese mansion on Rougetsu Island and solves mysteries of the past through clues left in memos and diaries.


With Zero: Tsukihami no Kamen, I was personally a fan of the Zero series. It was to the point that whenever I would get together to eat and drink with my friends (the director, Makoto Shibata and producer Keisuke Kikuchi), I would tell them "Hurry up and make the next Zero already!" That's why when they asked me, "Why not have Grasshopper make Zero?" I refused at first. I thought I couldn't make it since I'm a fan, and because it was something that had been made by Zero's team. But they asked, and I started to feel that I had to work as a professional. I asked Kikuchi and Shibata to definitely be a part of it. When we started production, Kikuchi was a marvelous producer. After all, he was very involved as a leader, and he rallied with the team. As a director, Shibata was very thorough, so it was an incredibly energetic scene from beginning to end.


About Zero

It's an incredibly popular series with a wildly enthusiastic fan base, so taking charge of the series was a huge responsibility. That much was expected, but it's a series made by Tecmo. On top of that, I knew the people who made it, so I didn't want to embarrass them. I was also a fan, so as a fan I thought I needed to deliver something interesting with this game. I wanted to raise the standard and really wanted to make people say, "This is fun." As a fan, that's one thing I couldn't yield.


At first I threatened the staff, saying, "Since the game we're making has a solid fanbase, research Zero. The fans will hang you if you make a game that shames its name." I cleared everything with the planning department, and I thoroughly encouraged the staff as we made it by providing a digest DVD for the other sections, telling them that they must at least watch that. I was also a fan, so this game had to be one that everyone loved. This is something I needed to make sure as a fan.


One thing I was not happy with is that I could not enjoy this game as a fan. As I've played this so much while debugging, I could not longer enjoy it as a fan. I wanted to enjoy this game as a fan! I wish I could erase all those debugging memories and have fun! There are so many memories, and it was a fun project. I love the game, but once again, I'd like to say it out loud, "Please erase those memories! I want to play!"

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#12205 About Miku...

Posted by midwinter on 14 December 2014 - 08:40 AM

I don't think Miku's "fated old woman" is necessarily the Matchmaker. For one thing, I don't think there's any indication the Matchmaker can leave the mountain, and for another, there are quite a few fated old women in this game; Hisoka has one too. There's as much reason to think they're the same old woman as to think it's the Matchmaker. Same with the photographer and Rei - might be her, might not. They certainly don't see fit to mention her by name, unlike Yuu, who was clearly so important they can't get his surname


I'm sorry but I really, strongly feel that what they did in FF5 invalidates the endings of both FF1 and FF3. I'm talking about the writers' decisions here, not the characters'. In FF1, Mafuyu sacrificed himself to stay with Kirie because he believed that staying with her and helping her were more important than staying with Miku. Some of his last words were, "I wish to be by her side... I will accept this destiny of mine." Whether his decision was right or wrong, that was what he wanted, and I don't think he meant for five years. If Kirie is going to be left alone after a short interval anyway, what was the point of Mafuyu making that choice? And why would Miku, who has previously appeared so sensitive and compassionate to the suffering of others, decide that her own feelings were more important than both his and Kirie's?


In FF3, the point is to live on even with the pain, because the ones we love live on in memory. By taking that idea of "memory" and making it into a literal baby that she has to go on and give birth to... well, it makes Rei look like kind of a sucker for accepting the metaphorical sort, doesn't it? But jokes aside, again, it's a matter of a few years. "Live on and remember me... until this child I gave you saps all your life energy in about three years, then you'll get to be with me!" doesn't really have the same impact. The creators kept giving us a strong, closed ending and then finding reasons that it didn't actually count and THIS is the proper one. It was one thing in FF3, but the more they keep doing it the less meaning the endings have. Why should we trust the ending of FF5 when they could come back a couple of games down the line and go, "Psych! Miku's back, and guess what? She's STILL messed up over her brother!" Where does it end? Or who's to say in the next game we won't find out that Yuuri committed suicide after all and Miu's busy chasing Miku's ghost into the nearest hell gate?


Back into the Watsonian perspective, I don't think Miku dying would have had the same impact on Miu, to be honest. Miu specifically says the memory that hurts her most is of watching Miku walk away, and thinking she (a three-year-old, for god's sake) could have said something to stop her. People can understand death a lot more easily than abandonment, because death you can't help, but leaving means something else was more important. And Miku basically confirms that - she decided she'd rather be with Mafuyu for a few moments than with Miu.


Miku's supposed kindness and love for Miu is also undermined for me because when Miu asks her to stay, she lies. Not even, "I wish I could stay," when she doesn't, but, "Yes, I'll stay!" What is the point of that? Miu is a mind-reader, for crying out loud, and if she wasn't, she's still going to notice Miku disappearing a couple of seconds later. The fact that Miku just tells her what she wants to hear even though it's a lie and they BOTH KNOW IT... it makes her seem untrustworthy and cowardly, not like a person in a difficult situation doing her best not to hurt anyone, but someone who wants to get out of this awkward conversation with her daughter as soon as possible. And who's to say the hug and kind smile when she left the first time weren't much the same? She had this chance to sit down and have a serious conversation with Miu and come to an understanding, and instead she gives her platitudes.


On top of that there's the absolute lack of recognition that she's doing to Miu exactly what Mafuyu did to her in the first place. Someone comes all that way to get you back, because they love you, but you decide you'd rather stay behind after all, and don't even give them the option of dying with you. And so it begins again. And you can say, well, Miu at least has Yuuri to understand her now, but we all thought the same thing post-FF3 about Miku and Rei, and look how that turned out.


Finally, this last bit is probably on me. I was probably reading things into the games that weren't there. But I liked what I thought of as Miku's arc in FF1 and FF3 as a story about a very lonely, isolated girl whose relationship with her brother is unhealthily codependent, who grows up, learns to live without him, learns that it is possible to make friends who understand her and love her, discovers her talents, and in spite of her terrible experiences, lives on as a stronger person with a bright future ahead of her. Now FF5 comes along, and that story I thought I saw doesn't exist any more. Instead the moral seems to be that if you're just obsessed enough with that one person in your life, eventually you will win out and get to be with them forever, and it doesn't matter who gets hurt along the way. That great future you thought you had, forget that! Leave your friends behind to become a single mother at nineteen, and then die anyway. Leave your daughter a wreck, because she was never the point.


If you can reconcile yourself to that and even enjoy it, more power to you, sincerely; I'm glad somebody can. But I really, really hate it, and I've never hated anything in this series before. It made me see a character I adored in an entirely new and unpleasant way, and also put a huge dent in my enjoyment of a game that I would otherwise have mostly liked.

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#11873 If Mio was in the game too....

Posted by Homuranagi on 26 October 2014 - 10:40 AM

Just in case I've not already written enough about the Amakuras to sink the Titanic, here's another text wall for your morning:


I don't think Mio actually was significantly stronger - maybe a bit, but it's not too hard to take the view, either, that she's the weaker one, depending on whether you view Mayu's actions as innocent and literal or manipulative and calculated, which is definitely another way to see her. If you're of the view that everything is to be taken at face value and Mayu is indeed a poor little thing who needs protecting and clinging to at all times, certainly. But if you think it's all kind of a facade or exaggeration and really she just manipulates Mio into doing all of these things, just to keep her to herself (and it's too early in the morning to say for sure, but IIRC there's a comment saying that Mio knew precisely what was happening but ignored it because she was actually okay with it), then painting Mio as the weaker one, or at least more so than she seems on the surface, is easy. If the former - spending her life protecting her needy, obsessive sister - then she would seem stronger. But if the latter, and Mayu is really dictating their whole lives, let alone relationship, and Mio is just letting herself be swept along in it and perfectly happy with it, I would argue that she's the weaker and more passive of the two after all. There's only one ending, however weird and OOC as hell, where both girls decide to move on... and that's the one where they decide to never, ever be apart again. The second happiest ending involves them actually dying together rather than be parted - I honestly don't see them ever getting over the loss of one another. There's honestly not one single moment during this series where I've ever felt that Mio would be able to manage without Mayu, and that if she did manage to learn to live without her it would take years and she would still never fully get over her. They were equally determined to be together; I don't really think it makes much difference which one survived, though I would lean towards Mio actually needing Mayu more than Mayu needed her in the end.


Actually, I think there's a chance Mayu might have had an easier time getting over Mio. I think Mayu would be happier living on with the memory that they became "one" through the ritual and that her sister gave her life to protect her, but Mio has literally nothing without Mayu because she's spent almost her entire life catering to her every whim and almost being afraid of her. Mayu stands to benefit a lot more from the situation, and she seems content just with the knowledge that they're one and Mio can never be taken away from her, whereas Mio can stand no other idea than physically having her sister with her at all times; that's why I'd think Mio would be a lot more desperate a survivor out of the two, and probably more likely to seek out yuukon. She's so distraught at the time of 3 that she literally wants to die to be with Mayu, and yuukon will fulfil her every wish. It seems like almost the ideal solution, in fact.


One of the things they did in the remake was show how she completely reciprocated the unhealthy relationship and needed Mayu just as much as Mayu needed her. They repeatedly make a point of saying that Yae/Mio wishes she had just fallen with Sae/Mayu and gone down rather than live on by herself, and this is pretty much a century later in the Kurosawas' case - she definitely never gets over it. I don't think Mio would, either. Plus she spends all of 3 literally sitting on the ground insisting about how she's going to die with her sister, and we never actually get to see her putting on a strong front and trying to move on the way Miku did. Not that it helped her at all. I honestly don't think yuukon would be a stretch at all for her, certainly around that time, since it's a way for them to actually, proveably be "one", if Mio can't or won't actually die... just yet. Or perhaps she'd perform it as a way to make sure they're together when she soon after kills herself or something similarly morbid? Any one of these things makes a world more sense to me than Miku suddenly up and leaving Rei to have a ghost baby with the brother she supposedly got over twice now. Why is it Miku, out of the entire cast so far? The one who surely makes the least sense? If even Rei doesn't end up ghost marrying and having a baby with her dead fiance then why, why in the name of all that is holy, does Miku? And why should it not happen, much more likely, to Mio, in that case?


Now we look at Miku. There is not one ending in the entire series where she fails to survive and carry on. Even her canon ending in 1, where she loses Mafuyu, seems like a bittersweet positive. Sure, her brother's dead, but he's doing this ~noble duty~ and she doesn't see the ghosts that tormented her so much anymore. In essence, she's free. But then she gets dragged back into 3, because suddenly two years later she's apparently not okay at all. And yet again, despite temporarily forsaking the real world for (a figment of) her dead brother, she comes back, and resolves to move on. She's okay. She could have died with him, but she didn't. She has to live on, to keep his memory alive and to be Rei's friend. And then they completely toss that out of the window, because guess what - she STILL didn't get over it after all! Even after everything she's been through, her dying wish is still to leave behind the child she had with her dead brother so she can go off to marry him and they can be together in the afterlife. If you feel annoyed and/or cheated by all of this, good - you should. Miku is the character who goes literally through hell over and over again, and always comes out the other side ready to live on. And still they decide that nope, even after multiple life affirming events she still cannot get over him.


Mio and Mayu were definitely closer than the Hinasakis, many times over. If Miku still can't manage to go on, how could they? How do we know, after what they did to Miku, that they're not going to suddenly turn around and decide that Rei misses Yuu too much after all, and went off to marry him? As much as I'd love to be able to say that so-and-so moved on, the fact is that, unfortunately, we can't anymore. Absolutely anything is possible, because they refused to let go of Miku, despite alllll of that character development, and now literally no one is safe. No one. Even if Mio did get over Mayu, there is nothing to say that one day in the future she wouldn't just randomly decide she's not okay after all and go in search of phantom conception and yuukon. There's no going back now. Can we ever say for sure that someone actually got over what happened to them when they have even dragged Miku back down twice? Maybe Ruka decided to marry Souya. Maybe we'll see a game where Misaki had Madoka's ghost baby? Who can say no for sure? There's no way to know anymore. But I'm fairly certain that, if Mio did find out about yuukon, she would at very least entertain the idea. Probably go through with it, too.


Now! I don't want old characters back. I'm never fond of the idea, even just at the idea of them recycling old people rather than creating new and interesting ones. I definitely do not want Mio back, ever. But if they absolutely had, had to bring back and ruin someone, every last bit of the criteria fit her worlds better than Miku. And I wouldn't mind her dying. There's that, too. The only remaining (pun not intended) question is: who would Mio and Mayu's yomiko take after? And would it have Mio's bust or Mayu's?

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#8695 Stroller Grandma's stroller

Posted by Homuranagi on 24 May 2014 - 05:11 AM

I'm sure we've all wondered about Stroller Grandma's stroller. Digging up a baby being a prominent part of her background and the baby being totally AWOL? Odd. I seemed to vaguely remember Shibata suggest you try to look inside it before (though I can't remember for the life of me where), so I decided to give it a go.


First I tried playing Kei's mission on the roof. I don't know how  - exact right camera angle? - but I caught a glimpse of something inside one of the strollers, and nearly jumped in the air of shock. It was quite startling. You can see why. I tried again and again to reproduce it, to no avail. Did I just imagine it?


Load up Miku's mission in the Himuro section and let her come towards me. But wait - what's that in the stroller? Is that a...














Related texture, for those who want to increase the trauma:




...Any thoughts on this... startling revelation? Or have we not recovered yet? Had you managed to spot this? Did you have any idea what was going on in that innocent-looking stroller? Do share.



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#15590 Death of the Easter egg

Posted by Homuranagi on 19 May 2016 - 02:22 AM

I do wonder how much it has to do with the new style of player they're targeting. I don't think anyone (including themselves) will try to deny that they're obviously aiming the newer games at a different audience from the first four. I also don't think it's a coincidence that the more they move towards including modes like HHM and specifically talking more about non-hardcore accessibility (ie casual-bait), the more shallow the content seems to get. SC was directly aimed at non-fans who are definitely casuals, choosing this specific type of game rather than a port or a full handheld experience of one of the full games, and look how compact and simplified that is, and how party game-oriented everything outside of story mode is. Story mode looks like it was made probably more for fans of the series, even if it is short (what with actually having unlockables and a blessed mission mode of all things), whereas the rest of the content is very much for non-committal dabbling. God knows you need to be committed to get story mode working.


5 is basically the epitome of this. It's easily the widest open game, but you're not really exploring of your own volition because of how heavily they lay the tracks and because you're basically led around by the hand in the form of the shadow-following, and when you do go off the beaten path there's virtually no reward for it. Even if you don't think they're actively discouraging exploration this way, it's hard to argue that they're encouraging it. Mission Mode, which used to be a bunch of extra content but definitely limited in terms of playerbase because of its difficulty, is gone and doesn't look likely to come back. In its place is a small number of incredibly short missions starring a character who is pretty blatantly there to stir up interest from people who are not fans of the series. The ghost list, obviously, is effectively gone, too, except for a much shorter and easier version to complete to the extent that it practically completes itself. Puzzles are virtually non-existent and only one type exists, and the same goes for sidequests. The notes are very repetitive and they go incessantly over and over the same concepts, so you don't really have a chance to miss out on any of the general framework of the story, and aside from Kururugi (which I still find weird as hell) I don't remember the story being nearly as complicated if you take it at face value (which may explain why it pretty much all falls apart once you do take a closer look).


I think a lot of this has to do with what ^ Greek said. The current style of horror game seems, at least, to be a lot more action-oriented and speedy, using things like constantly throwing enemies at you and more grotesque/visual-horror styles like all of the chopping up and blood that 5 has, even with the comments they made back in 2001 about not wanting it to be too gruesome at the risk of driving people away. Most games are more concerned with making jump scares pop up constantly in your face than actually slowing things down and taking time to build the world and atmosphere to scare you in a more subtle way. There's a big discussion in here about whether you think the atmospheric way is too slow or whether you think that constantly being pummelled by enemies causes them to quickly stop being scary due to overexposure, but that's probably for another time. From the style of 5, though, I'm pretty sure at least someone high up on the team isn't exactly a fan of the atmospheric method.


Having the game broken down into missions makes it more bitesize and easier to jump in and out of, too, which seems geared towards people who don't tend to play it for extended periods of time or just as a quick and spooky time-killer, rather than the old style which flows continuously even between chapters. It's less of a commitment and more digestible, especially now that everything has its own little plot summary right there as you go. It seems designed more to cater to people who do play in short-ish bursts, which I'm pretty sure most of us don't if we have the option, and that may explain why it's so frenetic - to keep these people interested. If you play a lot in one sitting it feels like a chore after a while with how much fighting you have to do, but they were probably afraid of the short burst players stumbling upon a more slowly-paced chapter and getting bored. In the very first chapter you meet Ouse, in the second you essentially have a mini-boss... it's pretty unrelenting, and the slow build seems to have been sacrificed for it. Ghost hands may have slowed the game down quite significantly, but they also act as an artificial tension booster, so even something as mundane as picking up an item means that you're constantly under fire and something is always being thrown at you.


So, what does all of that rambling have to do with easter eggs?


Perhaps, casual player doesn't want to think, see 'Game Over' screen or to explore his ingame surrondings while he is playing (and he has to if he wants to find easter eggs), the only thing that really matters is actually 'press x to win' and be done with this game so you can move to the next one.


Pretty much this is what I'm getting at, yeah. They've very clearly adopted a more linear style at this point. They're aiming for a less hardcore audience these days, and they don't expect them to do very much exploring or hard thinking about things like puzzles, hence why that's been almost totally stripped out. If you're expecting your players to pretty much let the game play itself without taking much or any time to look around, there's very little point spending time putting in breadcrumbs for them to (not) find. Easter eggs only work if you find them, after all. Everything is basically presented straight to you to guarantee that you see it, which might explain the encounter rate being out of this world. Could you imagine them hiding something as carefully as Stroller Grandma's ghost now when it took so many years for even a more hardcore-oriented playerbase to find it (and not without tricks even then)? There would be no point.


Whether you think there's been an influx of casuals or not, they make no secret of the fact that this is who they want and expect to be playing. They're going to do things they think this kind of player wants to see. Aside from not sticking around to finish the game if they deem it too hard or slow-paced or whatever, they're probably not very likely to play the post-game content, which is why we got Ayane and why the number of unlockables seems to be practically halving with each new game. I think mission ranks and things like the lens that lets you hear their thoughts might have been put in for the people who actually do stick around, but they only make up a tiny portion of the game and still aren't particularly deep. Sidequests require you to wander around and find things for yourself, which is something that 5 especially seems to bend over backwards to stop people from doing, not to mention that they make the story deeper (which the ghost list shows they're clearly not interested in doing), and god forbid might even require you to do things over multiple chapters and thus make them less segregated and episodic, which also makes jumping in and out harder.


To (finally) end, then, I'm pretty sure it's a combination of them viewing easter eggs (and bonus content outside of the main story in general) as pointless given that the audience they want to play the games will probably never find them or give a damn about them if they do, but also them being afraid that the old style of hiding things and building the atmosphere in a more subtle way would make the pacing turn people away, hence the increasingly action-oriented style and apparent attempts to make it even more action-y. Fast-moving gameplay and a constant conveyor belt of instant gratification in the form of in-your-face scares doesn't leave much room. Not many people they're trying to sell the game to want to sit around watching an LP of someone meticulously combing the game map for notes; they want to see screaming and big reactions, like those night cam videos of people shrieking at a screen that are such a popular marketing tactic in this genre. Easter eggs and little wink-nudges don't fit into that, since they're for people who do enjoy getting deeper into a game and therefore are in direct opposition with the people they're targeting, so unless the marketing strategy changes considerably we can probably kiss goodbye to them.


Replay value is gone because you're not expected to replay it. Instant gratification and gimmicks up to the eyeballs is the new way. As much as I miss the days of things like dust pictures in mirrors and bloody hands showing in innocent photos, those unfortunately don't market themselves in the way that mutilated ghosts, gimmicky control schemes and seethrough shirts do. In their hurry to constantly shove things in people's faces, they seem to have forgotten how effective a shadow in a window can be.

  • GregZerO, Yashuu, Hex and 3 others like this

#14770 Fatal Frame 4 on WiiU

Posted by Homuranagi on 02 November 2015 - 07:34 PM

On PlayStation maybe - 4 only sold a few thousand more than 3 did, so it's not like there was a massive leap in sales, and sales overall were better on PS2 - but it's hard to say roughly what the sales would be because it's been with Nintendo for so long. If it was on the Xbox then it would be totally dead. Xbox just isn't a thing in Japan. There's a reason why copies of the JP Xbox versions of 1 and 2 are so rare and expensive (yes, that is $120 for a used copy of FF2), and why they never sold enough units to make it onto a chart so we have no idea what the actual sales were. I don't know how well they did overseas (which is the market you'd assume they were initially made to entice), but you'd have to sell a lot extra of those to make up for the sharp drop in domestic sales you would have on the Xbox, and I don't think it has that kind of selling power. The series is so deeply rooted in Nintendo these days, increasingly so, that I don't think we'll be going back to another system any time soon, and it's highly likely that nothing after 3 would have been made without Nintendo (I think the team disbanded and planned not to make any more games after 3, but I can't remember whether that was a rumour or if I actually read that somewhere), especially with Tecmo's financial mess at the time. This is what we've got and we're basically going to have to live with it. It's always going to be niche no matter what system it's on, and it's kind of amazing that it's survived this long at all with what little incentive there must be to make more. I don't think we'll ever see this series sell super well without totally rebuilding it and taking away what makes it what it is - which is kind of what they're doing, and all we can do is hope that they don't take too far. It's more a case of just justifying the making of more of them.


On another topic, I think that if NOE can afford to pretty much throw money around to give their fans a limited physical release then NOA can most certainly afford to do the same.  They just have chosen not to.


That's exactly the case. They're not going to be making much money on this in the first place, and leaking more money in creating something that's only really for existing fans who will already be buying the game isn't a worthwhile expense for them, since the entire point of this is convincing people to buy the game. Sure they can afford to do it, but if they already didn't see any merit in releasing the other games (likely for financial reasons) they certainly won't be leaping at the chance to expend any more money than absolutely necessary. NoE are just too extravagant for their own good, I guess. I don't think I'll ever understand the ways in which they work.



Do you all remember when we all were saying that Fatal Frame 5 will never be localized ?


This isn't the same case at all. FF5 isn't broken and 7 years old on a dead system, and still NoA were reluctant to release it. We've had 3 games since then, and still not a peep of localisation - even games that are 3 years old still seem to be pushing it, and this is more than twice that. 5's localisation only took around 6 months to be announced. I'll believe that 4 has a chance at being localised when they confirm that it's being localised and no sooner. If you still think we're getting it, fine, but there's a point when optimism becomes stubbornness. There's just no reason to believe right now that it's going to happen. Like I said, 4 was the only one that NoE didn't end up releasing. There has to be a reason for that. If they had already started localising it and then stopped, which is what apparently happened, there was a reason. You don't start dumping money into something and then just randomly stop because you don't care anymore. If 7 years on, on top of dumping pots of money into localisations and even a limited edition, even NoE don't want to touch it then there really is no reason to think that it's going to come over. Lots of work and financial commitment, little to no reward. In the end it's down to business, not the whims of the fans, whether the fans like that or not. Keep buying the games and hope that eventually they listen to you. If it does come over then we can have the head of whichever branch localises it canonised for performing a miracle, because that's what it will take at this point.

  • GregZerO, ナガクラ, calne and 3 others like this

#12206 About Miku...

Posted by Homuranagi on 14 December 2014 - 05:40 PM

This is going to get crazy long. We all know it is. But I have even more to say about this than usual.


The thing I just really cannot get over is the way Miku treats her, past and present. I think my thoughts on this are best exemplified by what happens after you save Miku.


Miku makes no real attempt to apologise, not helped by the fact that she's asleep, but not excused by it. "I'm sorry, forgive me," on a piece of dropped paper or perhaps muttered once, is simply not enough for ruining her daughter's life, it isn't. It's the absolute smallest gesture she can possibly make to the daughter she abandoned, and she did have a choice in the matter, whereas Miu didn't. I mean, she even admits she doesn't think she'll forgive her - she knows asking forgiveness is utterly pointless, and rightly so. It's not something that's covered by an, "Oops, sorry about that." When she does actually mention Miu at all, she specifically notes that she's "our" precious daughter. Every single thought about Miu somehow goes straight back to Mafuyu and how she's connected to him. What happens when you read their innermost thoughts? Miu lies there, crying out over, and over, and OVER for her mother, and all she wants is to be with her. Miku has nothing on her mind, even after being taken back, than leaving and being with Mafuyu. Even when she's leaving to go to the Magatsuhi, all she talks about is Mafuyu. She walks through the water with her daughter, surely knowing she's about to vanish and never see her again, and guess what? It's still ALL about Mafuyu, and how she desperately wanted to go back to it being just him and her! You don't have to be an expert to see what kind of impact that's going to have on the child she abandoned to do all of this. She doesn't even try to reassure her that she is important to her, or that she's not alone. Her first thought is getting back to him.


You'd think that, since she's already going to him, she'd spare even a second of the last remaining moment of her life to at least have some kind of proper interaction with her daughter. But she chooses to keep on talking about Mafuyu, like he's the only thing that matters to her. And it only gets worse from there! Either she outright lies to Miu, for no real reason (and no, I'm sorry Shibata, but the lie does NOT hurt her more than Miu), or she stays with her... and then what? She dies anyway, certainly, but how do we know she doesn't just keep on obsessing over Mafuyu with Miu trailing around like a puppy that wants attention until she kicks the bucket and gets her wish at last? How do we know she doesn't just run straight back to the mountain and hop back in her box in the middle of the night, the way she already left Miu in the dream? It would make no sense for her to suddenly do a 180 and pay attention to Miu after everything, so I'm pretty sure it's quite unlikely. The best part is, yep, Miu is a mindreader, so she probably knows all of this! She probably knows that her mother is too busy thinking of all this to consider her. If you pair this with the ending where she lies and then vanishes... do I really need to write it out? Her last action, last interaction with her daughter (not to mention first real one), is to tell a barefaced lie to her, because she has no intentions/capabilities of staying with her and she knows it - and she never did, because she only ever wanted to be with Mafuyu anyway. She doesn't even tell her goodbye, or that she loves her, and Shibata reckons that it's somehow inferred anyway - even after everything else (and it's not). That's absolutely beyond horrible.


I also can't agree that Miu's conception is anything more than completely against everything 3 was supposed to tell us. The guidebook says that, at the Abyss she received the same message as Rei did. What was Rei's message? To go on living, despite her pain and loneliness, and keep Yuu's memory alive. What we're basically being told is that Miku hears something similar, and after everything decides that no, she's having none of this, and rather than try to move on like Rei - you know, her only friend, who actually depends a lot on her and god knows what she would have done without Miku's support - she's going to have intercourse with her brother, her dead brother, and refuse to move on in any way, as you can very painfully clearly see in 5. Nothing ever changes for her. She just postpones her final goal to raise Miu for a bit. Personal conjecture time: could she possibly have, even without the yomiko side effects, gone off to be with Mafuyu and left her behind anyway when Miu was old enough to fend for herself and moved out or something? I think it's totally possible.


There's even an argument in there for her actually suspecting that she may have been able to have a yomiko. If you can die in a dream, it's not remotely illogical to think that certainly you can conceive in one, after all. It's entirely speculative, naturally, but what was stopping her from crossing over with Mafuyu right then and there like Rei tried to with Yuu? If she really wanted to be with him, why not go then? She didn't know about yuukon at this point. There's no reason for her to hang back. The obvious answer is that it's a nasty retcon, and that she didn't go because she was never meant to... but the creators don't seem too bothered about taking FF3 into account except to use it as a sort of post-mortem baby-maker, so of course it doesn't really make sense now. What makes less sense? The ending! Quoting from the interview in 3's book:


Kikuchi: I also thought that if the story and ending had a clear message, it would be best to have only one ending. Since so far the endings have been sad ones, we wanted to make another kind of ending, and so we created a different one for the second playthrough. Incidentally, in the series so far, the ending that plays after beating the game once has been the true ending. This time, the one that plays during the credits and shows the story afterwards in photos is the true ending.


Don't know about you, but the "clear" message I got from that ending wasn't, "Well, it doesn't really matter in the end; you can just have a baby with your brother and then marry him in death when your ghost baby brings your life to a premature end. Keep the obsession alive!"


If the entire ending - literally the entire thing - is about carrying on and living, then why does she suddenly refuse to do it? The obvious answer is that she was meant to, but they decided to have her in 5, and took the lazy and downright awful way out of going - oh, wait, no! You just misinterpreted that; she never got over him after all! Teehee. Not only this, but we're essentially being told that the ending of 3 itself is a waste of time, because she would have been happier if she'd just been left to die in the first place, since then she could have her wish and be with Mafuyu. That actually Rei saving her by ending the curse was pointless and actually the worse choice for Miku, because she never wanted to come back. Are we being told, then, that the only reason she chooses not to do this, to live on and try to go back to some kind of life, is because she's pregnant by Mafuyu? There's no way I can possibly look at that as not being a really bad and creepy as hell (in all the wrong ways) ending.


Plus, if she left because she knew she was pregnant by him - and we know that's the case - then why did she seem to be trying to build a life with Rei like that? If she hadn't left then and was living ostensibly normally then you can make the reasonable assumption she didn't know she was pregnant... which brings the question: why was she trying to move on at that point rather than just die to be with him? And therein lies one of the main problems. There's no reason to believe she did not get over him. No reason to believe she wouldn't. And yet, all of a sudden, we find out that not only did she not, but that the obsession is arguably worse than ever. Think about this for a moment. She meets him at the Abyss in her dream, and has his baby, of all things. Then, only four years later, she's wandering around obsessively muttering about wanting to see him just one more time. She's already seen him, not all that long ago - but she already wants to see him again. What about the next time, and the next time after that? It seems like a "just one more piece of chocolate" situation where she simply cannot stop herself from going back for more every time, and will probably just keep doing this and mooning around after him forever. On the outside, at least, she managed to live a relatively normal, if sad, life between 1 and 3. Now she finally has someone who understands her, and what does she do with it? She throws it all away, her friend and this whole new life she's built, to have Mafuyu's baby, and stops even trying to pretend. Instead of actually taking the game's entire message to heart, she ignores it completely and sinks even deeper.


So, either way you look at it, either her role in 3 (and by extension pretty much its entire message) was invalidated, or they've just up and decided to pretend that it never happened, because it's far more convenient this way. Why is she sitting watching the sun set with Rei at the end? Presumably not because she's moved on, if what 5 tells us has any say in the matter. Busy thinking up baby names and planning her future descent into some hell gate to die with Mafuyu in a couple of years?


It's honestly not all that different to what they pulled to get her back into 3. They took away her sixth sense at the end of 1, thinking that they would never have to explain it, and then when 3 happened they decided they wanted Miku back, so they skirted around the issue and pretended it never really happened, or it didn't mean what you thought it meant. It's just on a much grander, much stupider scale this time. They thought 3 was done, so they tied it neatly with a bow, but wait! It wasn't done after all, because it didn't happen how you thought it did! Who's to say that, when 7 rolls around, they won't go, "Oh, that yomiko thing? Yeah, the folklorist made a typo. It doesn't kill you, it makes you immortal!" and she'll just be back again, going after Mafuyu again. Miu chasing her again, finally saving her again, only for her to nobly sacrifice herself... again. And you know what this kind of thing opens up the door to? Mio. I don't think I really have to make a case for why Mio is a far more likely candidate to not have gotten over Mayu at the end of 3, especially since we have no evidence to suggest that she did, unlike Miku. So why don't we just bring her back and have her chasing after her sister yet again? This series tries desperately hard not to let anyone get over anyone, ever, no matter what they have to twist and manipulate or completely ignore to get there. Rei clearly moves on at the end of 3. So what? Miku supposedly did, too, and that didn't stop her. There's no reason to believe for a second that Rei can't magically decide overnight that hey, she's not alright after all, and she's damn well marching down to the nearest hell opening to be with Yuu after all, thereby completely ignoring the message of 3... and basically doing what Miku did.


One final point on 3's ending, a quote from Shibata in 2005: "I would say it's "bad opening, happy ending". In any case, I was enthusiastic about seeing the best ending." Remembering that Miku is meant to have had a very similar experience to Rei, if not the same. Is this what we're meant to believe is her happy ending? After everything? The struggle of her life so far since Himuro, and the message of moving on? This is what they deemed would be the happiest thing they could say, the best thing that could happen to her? "No, she never got over him. It was just postponed a bit because she got pregnant by him. Don't be too sad; she can marry his spirit in a few years." Don't know about you, but the whole thing just sounds ridiculous to me. So... what development has she gone through, when it's all said and done? What has changed since the moment at the end of 1, except she's seemingly getting worse with time? Her only goal, in a 6 year timeline, is to be with Mafuyu, no matter the cost. Six years. And yet nothing has really changed. So what's it all been for? To drive home the message that she can't live without him after all? That no matter what she goes through, learns, grows as a person, has a child, the end goal in her thoughts is always the man who abandoned her in the first place? Abandonee becomes abandoner; the rest is essentially static. For six years.


Her final quote at the end of 3, post credits, is, "I always thought that we 'survived'... but we were left behind [saved, kept, etc. - to successfully remain behind or survive while the other person died; the connotations are positive, not like abandonment], weren't we?" before Rei's comment about going on with the pain. She seems to have finally accepted that she didn't just outlive Mafuyu, but that she was actually left behind in the living world to go on with her life; that she's left behind to continue his memory, and he lives on with her... and then 5 just completely ignores this realisation. Completely. At this stage we aren't even retconning an ending, we are actually regressing and taking back development we thought we had made. One step forwards, two steps and a demon baby back. The worst part is she actually acknowledges this in her note in 5. She restates that she was allowed to live on. And then ignores it. Again. Everything that's happened so far is utterly meaningless. Just a means to an end to get her pregnant, and for her to immediately slide back on whatever progress as a person she's made. It's all for nothing. It's neither a good way of telling a story or writing a character, nor something I accept, let alone am happy with. I hate that they've done this. That they've made everything mean nothing at all, just for one cheap plot that means nothing either. Do I consider that ruining a character? Absolutely. They spent two games building her up and then tore it all away and not only that, but made her even worse off than she ever was to begin with. She isn't the only one getting hurt and she knows it, but she goes through with her mad plans anyway, not once but almost twice (I mean, if we're accepting this version of her mentality to be the true one, then she never really "survived" with Rei to begin with and probably would've done this again regardless of Miu, not to mention the whole coma situation where she nearly DID die once already). And still she learns nothing.


One last comment on her moving on with and continuing her life - since she was originally meant to have had Miu with Kei, you can be pretty sure she originally did get on with her life, after all. It's only when they made the decision to drag Mafuyu back into it, YET AGAIN, because of this yuukon weirdness, that this happened. This both means that 1) she was originally alright and they retconned the hell out of it, and 2) SUCH BAD WRITING.




Now that we've spent... a long time talking about how pointless 3's ending apparently now is, let's get back to how she screwed up Miu!


Upon leaving Miu, according to her thoughts, Miku knew that she was unlikely to forgive her or understand, and that she was going to suffer because of it. Her only brief attempt at consolation is, "Be strong!" That doesn't help anyone. She made this decision to go to be with Mafuyu, not spend her last moments with her young daughter who couldn't possibly understand and had no one to explain things to her, fully aware of the damage she was doing. Did it stop her? Did it hell. How did she do this? Not by leaving Miu with a friend and slipping out of the back door. Not even by doing something similarly, but slightly less, terrible and telling her to stay inside and watch TV or something while she left... no. She made sure Miu watched her leave. She just left her three year old child stand there, sobbing, no idea where in the hell her mother and only family is going... and all Miku offers is a hug and "kind eyes". There's no indication that anyone is even there to look after Miu once she's gone - why would she be sobbing there all by herself if someone was around? Why doesn't Miku use this opportunity to tell her a white lie, that she's going away for a while or something? She leaves her there, all alone and abandoned, in a moment that shapes her entire life. And she still doesn't particularly care. She even says she's going. "Miu, you are our precious child - but I am going." There. She clearly, out loud - knowing Miu can probably "hear" it - says that Miu may be precious to her - and honestly it seems to sound more like she's cherishing the part of her that's Mafuyu, really - BUT she is consciously making that decision to leave her, because there's something more important than not screwing up her young daughter, and that thing is darn well marrying her brother, because he was what was really important all along.


This one thing, done completely consciously, leaves Miu so broken and disengaged from the world that she can't even form relationships with people, even ones like Yuuri who understand what she's going through. The one person who could possibly have helped her come to terms with her uniqueness (ie sixth sense) abandoned her in a strange world full of people who simply don't understand - rather than, for example, sending her to someone like Rei who would. What does it do? Turns her into a bitter and scarred girl by the time she's 17. Remind you of anyone? That's right - Miku did exactly to her daughter what happened to her, except Miu doesn't have the luxury of a brother who understands her. Miu is essentially what would probably have happened to Miku without that one person in her life she could trust and understand, and she knew exactly what she was doing when she left her to that fate. Miku's dying wish was not to provide for the daughter she left behind, and set her up for life in a cruel world she knew only too well - but to see her dead brother one more time. Do I find this at all like Miku? No. It seems really weird, and just cruel.


I don't believe that she would necessarily have been too ashamed for Rei to know - actually, I think Rei is the only person she would have trusted to understand, or at least help her. Even if she was ashamed, would she put that shame ahead of her daughter's welfare, and instead leave her with someone clearly not equipped to deal with her? Apparently so. She didn't even have to explain anything; just send Miu to her before she left, to take care of her. It's certainly not all that much more shameful than it would have been for a teenage, unmarried girl to show up somewhere pregnant with the baby of a man she apparently doesn't even know, since she's not going to admit it, is she? Certainly not more shameful than abandoning her daughter and never showing up again. Not only did she choose the far, far more traumatising route of making sure her daughter SAW her leave her for good, instead of naturally burn out and die, but she did nothing to stop the inevitable. That is absolutely selfish and not justifiable. It's also worth noting that yes, it's right - she didn't leave Miu with Sachi Iyama. She was left with her by an "acquaintance", unnamed, and god only knows who that was or how/when they found Miu, or what she went through in the process of finding a home. Which is yet another point. Did she discuss this with her friends, or did she just take off and hope they were okay with taking in her daughter and looking after her? More people being affected by a selfish choice - just like Yuu and Rei having to take in Miku when Mafuyu vanished! Funny how that works. At least Miku was able to fend for herself, unlike a confused three year old.


Just to really put it out there, let's take a look at Miku's quotes.

1) "My life will be extinguished soon. I want to see him, just once more - just once, even if I can't be by his side. Just once. Even if only just once."

2) "Miu - our precious child. But I am going. I don't suppose you will understand. I don't think you'll forgive me. I'm sorry that you will be left with the same pain, even though I know... even though I understand it... Don't look for me, please. Be strong and live [on]."


Do you see what I mean? It's not only all about Mafuyu, still, but she knows precisely what she's doing to Miu all along, and her only small attempt to console her is to tell her what Miku herself was never able to do. She knows she won't understand. She knows what she's doing is so horrible that she won't forgive it, and this will probably become an issue for her. Why, then, if she can't get over her brother, is Miu supposed to be able to get over her?


Now let's take a look at Miu's:

1) "I can read other people's minds. It's so pointless. So pointless... but I have none of those things. I have nothing. Mother... mother... mother... mother... mother... mother... mother..."

2) "Mother... why did you go by yourself? Why? Is that how little I really mean to you? Is it for something more important than me? Why wouldn't you take me with you? ...Is waiting not enough? I have to move. I have to move..."

3) "I've gotten better at smiling! What a lie. My smile is the absolute worst lie of them all. It even makes me want to cry. I'm used to being fooled and lied to, but don't lie about that. It's pathetic. Stop telling those lies."


If you try to interact with either of them, Miu calls out for her mother. Miku, predictably, does nothing but call out for Mafuyu. Ha. Haha.


And you know what the saddest part is? She was right all along. There was something more important than her, and Miku confirms it, without a care in the world, or even a proper apology. It's all she thinks about. Do you honestly think she'd be talking this way if Miku had just died, rather than abandon her? I can't see any way in which this is the case. Dying doesn't give a person a horrible complex about not being enough for their own mother, because their mother saw it fit to make them watch as she walked away and abandoned her for good, with no explanation. She knew precisely what she was doing.


Quote 3 is particularly relevant, because consider the "bad" ending for a moment. Look at what Miku does. You see that? She's not only lying to her, oh no - she is basically cutting into her with the sharpest, hottest knife in her arsenal. There is nothing crueller she could have done. And yet the creators want us to believe that Miku is the one who gets hurt by it. Which is beyond ridiculous to me. Not content with ruining her daughter's life, she has to make that one last blow in the place that hurts the most before she leaves her for good. That's not Miku.


What happens to Miu? She's so screwed up by this event that she runs off to look for Miku, nearly dying herself in the process. And it's all for nothing, because when she does get her mother back, she barely even acknowledges her, because there's someone far more important that she has to go off to. If this sounds familiar, it's because it's the Mafuyu trick. History repeating itself. There was even meant to be an ending where they jump into the water together, which sounds a lot like Miu killing herself to be with Miku... and if Miku screwed her up enough for that, then what else do I need to add, really? It speaks well for itself.


Different point. If Miku is still so obsessed with Mafuyu, enough to marry him and have his baby, what makes you think that she didn't want it, or wasn't happy about it? I don't see anything in her words, actions or thoughts that suggests she was anything other than perfectly happy about the whole situation, certainly not traumatised or upset about it. If anything she seems almost at peace with the whole thing, and glad it means she finally gets to see him again. I also don't see any indication in 5 that she ever did move on, at all. Would she have done what she "did" in the dream if she was over him? Would she be repeating the same damn thing about seeing him like a mantra if she was over him - if she would leave her daughter to use the last of her life to be WITH him, if she was over him? I don't think so. Any hopes of her having moved on, gotten over him at all, or even attempting to do so died with her monologue about actually wanting to go back in time to be with him. And to top it all off she's saying it to the daughter she abandoned. Great.


Another thing - did she ever really get her wish? What actually happens to her while she's in the box? We have no actual proof that it ever worked the way it thought she would, or that she got to spend any more time with him than just at the ceremony itself. Not only that, but after the ceremony has taken place the vow is sealed, and there's no reason to believe their souls don't go to be together once she's dead (indeed they were supposed to in the cut ending), as is the nature of yuukon... so why is she still SO concerned with being with Mafuyu when she's about to die? Why not use that time to be with Miu, if she's just been with him and is going to be with him forever soon enough anyway? If it was unsuccessful, it was for nothing. If it was successful, she's ignoring Miu for nothing. Either way, this is a complete lose-lose situation.


Whether you think she was completely ruined as a character, or whether she moved on or not, whether 3 is completely pointless now or not - what you can't really deny is that Miku's choices did have a big impact on what Miu ended up being, that it could have been prevented, and if she had done even a few small things for her daughter, rather than being so wrapped up in being with her brother all the time and her own happiness, Miu had a chance at being a happy or at least okay and not horribly jaded and broken person. But she didn't do these things, and it is completely unlike the Miku we previously knew, and that honestly the Miku doing these things seems like a really horrible person with no real regard for the kind of pain she causes to others. So yes, I do hate it, and it has ruined both 5 and the others games Miku has been in for me, because the entire thing feels so meaningless now, not to mention I just hate her new character. I'm still stunned that they could consider this something that would "make the fans happy".


Incest is actually the only part of the equation I couldn't really care less about - I mean, 2 is entirely based off incest, and people embrace that joyously - though I don't believe that up until now her feelings were ever have implied to be of that nature, more a kind of juvenile obsession with the only person who's ever taken care of her, with a sprinkling of, "Ooh, nii-san is such a kind sweet martyr!" and it sort of feels like they went back and changed something that never was to back their story up, which I don't like at all. It's everything else that's the problem.


And finally, as for Miku deserving her own moment of happiness - she had her brother for 17 years of her life, and she had a child she's supposed to have loved. She's had far more than Miu's ever had. Why doesn't she get to be happy even for a short while, at the expense of her mother's selfish choice? You know the one thing that makes Miu happy? Spending her last small amount of time with Miku before she dies. And you know what Miku denied her when she left to marry Mafuyu? ...Yeah. Letting Miu be with her up until the end. Funny how that works, isn't it?


Moral of the story: no one gets out alive. Your unhealthy adoration of your sibling wins every time. Don't bother trying to grow as a person or move on in any way; you'll end up dying to be with them at any cost in the end. Save yourself some time and just die when the opportunity first presents itself! Better for everyone around you in the long run, before they form attachments to you and end up suffering when you show that you didn't really care all that much about them to begin with. But they'll understand, because it's your destiny. Or something.


And since the subject's been brought up, re Miku's old woman of fate, I'm more inclined to believe that it may have been Iyama herself (she certainly fits the bill, going by her voice), or maybe another of Iyama's old lady friends, and that if she is a descendant of the escaped shrine maidens like Hisoka, then she could very well have been the one to give Miku ideas about yuukon in the first place, since she would probably be familiar with the stories.

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